4 ms·

> Your average person driving a car in the US isn't "fetishizing" anything. They live in a big-ass country where a lot of things they care about are far away.

• cplusplusfellow 5y ago
  Most of those cities were designed when horses weren’t even an option. But some of us don’t consider that nicer.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• ericmay 5y ago
  So you can check my post history and I’m super pro-walkable city neighborhood, etc. My wife and I only own one car that we share and that’s even in the suburbs. But remind me. Where are BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Jaguar, Rolls Royce, and others HQ’d? While Americans have larger vehicles we also have more space and unfortunately a society designed around cars. I don’t get how we are “fetishizing” cars when almost all of the actual fetish vehicles are designed in other countries. Everyday people buying a giant SUV are almost certainly not fetishizing it. They just have 3 kids and it’s easy and they sit up high on the road. I agree completely with the rest of your post, though. I’m experiencing some schadenfreude (not in a serious manner) with those multi-car households and giant gas-guzzling vehicles having to experience a bit of the costs for the world they advocate for when they typically do not. Problem is they vote, even against their (and my) long-term interests.
  • mandmandam 5y ago
    This is not to be read as a defense of car companies, or an attack on Americans: Those cars are designed in other countries to be larger specifically for America taste. Americans visit Europe and chuckle at the "tiny" cars, which are in fact perfectly appropriate for three children. And those cars were designed by the same companies for European standards. To me, that reads as fetishization on a mass cultural level, and while you can point the finger anywhere you like that fact will remain at the core. There is no justification, on a planet burning faster every year, for the ridiculously oversized cars Americans choose. None.
    • ericmay 5y ago
      When you call it a fesithization that is definitely interpreted by me as an attack/insult and I don't think it adds any value, and probably strengthens convictions of people who drive large SUVs. Are Germans fetishzing Russian natural gas? No. It's incentives and economics, and poor government choices based on poor assumptions about the state of the world (same with America, gas, and the suburbs). You're mixing up a preference based on no immediate negative repercussions with Pimp My Ride. Believe it or not, Americans are just regular people. Immigrants to the U.S. don't walk from point to point, they buy large SUVs too. If Americans are burning the planet (and we are, to be clear, with bone-headed city and urban planning decisions) than auto manufacturers from other countries absolutely share the blame, including their employees (to the same extent you'd blame an American for buying a large SUV) for selling the fuel and matches and advertising how cool the fuel and matches are, especially when used together.
• dntrkv 5y ago
  > However car manufacturers did in fact plot - conspired, even - to attack trams, public transport, trains, and anything else that could threaten their dominance. That's just well known fact, and I don't know why you're defending any of this. Which facts? Can you provide some sources?
  • mandmandam 5y ago
    Engaging with potential/probable sealions is just about my least favorite part of commenting. You may be genuine, in which case I recommend using literally any search engine on the device of your choice to find sources which you like. Wikipedia, YouTube, or deeper - there is no shortage of sources - all you have to do is look.
• seabird 5y ago
  >Americans are mocked worldwide for their ridiculous cars. Oversized, gas guzzling, ostentatious, and yes - fetishized cars are associated with Americans worldwide. Americans mock other nations for all sorts of shit that isn't true, like French people not showering or Germans sounding/being angry all the time. Should we take those thoughts seriously because a lot of people think them? Americans do buy a lot of pickups. Many of these get decent gas mileage. A lot of people use these for work. Crossovers are the biggest new sellers (over 50% of new sales, if my memory serves me correctly), which get marginally worse mileage than the cars they're directly descended from. The size of all of these vehicles is prodded along by "safety" regulations and ratings, where a higher hood height is correlated with the driver/passengers being safer in accidents (this has its own problems but it's a different discussion). I think you have an exaggerated view of what US auto consumer preferences look like. This is really easy because the whole "the US is a shithole with no redeeming qualities" narrative is popular among some crowds, but it doesn't reflect the reality of what's happening. >However car manufacturers did in fact plot - conspired, even - to attack trams, public transport, trains, and anything else that could threaten their dominance. That's just well known fact, and I don't know why you're defending any of this. Those plots and attacks range from completely unverifiable conspiracy theories, to unintended consequences, to actions that one might reasonably argue were an attempt to interfere with public transit. It is nowhere near as cut and dry as you're making it out to be, and trying to claim that some unproven conspiracy by Big Car is the primary reason the US is so dependent on cars today is myopic. You've suggested that others in this thread "just Google it", but some of the first results you're going to see when researching this subject touch pretty heavily on what I've said above -- the person asking you for some sources probably wasn't a "sealion" (whatever that is), they probably already did what you told them to, and some of the highest ranking info directly contradicted your argument. >Have you ever actually traveled outside America and seen how much nicer it is to be able to walk around a city that isn't designed completely around cars? It's a far, far superior daily experience. Nobody is denying that it's nicer to be able to walk around a city without having to deal with cars and traffic. The discussion is whether or not it is even feasible to have that anywhere in the US to the extent that other places do.
  • mandmandam 5y ago
    > Americans mock other nations for all sorts of shit that isn't true, [etc.] That's not an argument that applies here, because Americans actually do buy stupidly big cars. > I think you have an exaggerated view of what US auto consumer preferences look like. This is really easy because [overly defensive strawman] No, I don't. Here's some numbers, which you could have looked for yourself, with the search engine of your choice: " According to data from IHS Automotive, larger vehicles accounted for 63 percent of total US sales in 2013. Meanwhile, large vehicles only accounted for 25.4 percent of all vehicles sold outside the US during the same year." > Those plots and attacks range from completely unverifiable conspiracy theories, to unintended consequences, to actions that one might reasonably argue were an attempt to interfere with public transit. The cars are bigger. The cities are less livable. The conspiracies are verifiable, there are entire books, documentaries, and Wikipedia pages about the various fuckeries involved. You seem to be rather defensive about this though, so feel free to think whatever you like. > The discussion is whether or not it is even feasible to have that anywhere in the US That may be what you wish to discuss - fine. You can have that discussion somewhere else, with someone else. It is feasible though - and necessary. Again, the fucking planet is burning.