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The percentage of people that will do anything to their car that will negatively impact the emissions is so small that it's not even worth worrying about. The v

The percentage of people that will do anything to their car that will negatively impact the emissions is so small that it's not even worth worrying about. The vast majority of people take their vehicle to an oil change chain so they can have the drain plug hole on their pan stripped out instead of just taking 30 minutes to do it themselves. I really don't think you need to worry about them pulling off emissions controls while they dyno tune their Camry. "Fetishisation" is a word that is inching closer to being an instant giveaway for a ham-fisted or outright stupid take. Your average person driving a car in the US isn't "fetishizing" anything. They live in a big-ass country where a lot of things they care about are far away. Having a car allows them to get to their job, see their family, and so on. It's not some insidious plot to keep you from walking around your city.

drewwwwww 5y ago
them living far away from their jobs or preferred places to go were not values free choices made in a vacuum, and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise to make some kind of point about how the status quo is a law of the universe.
mandmandam 5y ago
> Your average person driving a car in the US isn't "fetishizing" anything. They live in a big-ass country where a lot of things they care about are far away. Having a car allows them to get to their job, see their family, and so on. Americans are mocked worldwide for their ridiculous cars. Oversized, gas guzzling, ostentatious, and yes - fetishized cars are associated with Americans worldwide. > It's not some insidious plot to keep you from walking around your city. OP didn't say it is. However car manufacturers did in fact plot - conspired, even - to attack trams, public transport, trains, and anything else that could threaten their dominance. That's just well known fact, and I don't know why you're defending any of this. Have you ever actually traveled outside America and seen how much nicer it is to be able to walk around a city that isn't designed completely around cars? It's a far, far superior daily experience.
- cplusplusfellow 5y ago
  Most of those cities were designed when horses weren’t even an option. But some of us don’t consider that nicer.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ericmay 5y ago
  So you can check my post history and I’m super pro-walkable city neighborhood, etc. My wife and I only own one car that we share and that’s even in the suburbs. But remind me. Where are BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Jaguar, Rolls Royce, and others HQ’d? While Americans have larger vehicles we also have more space and unfortunately a society designed around cars. I don’t get how we are “fetishizing” cars when almost all of the actual fetish vehicles are designed in other countries. Everyday people buying a giant SUV are almost certainly not fetishizing it. They just have 3 kids and it’s easy and they sit up high on the road. I agree completely with the rest of your post, though. I’m experiencing some schadenfreude (not in a serious manner) with those multi-car households and giant gas-guzzling vehicles having to experience a bit of the costs for the world they advocate for when they typically do not. Problem is they vote, even against their (and my) long-term interests.
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    This is not to be read as a defense of car companies, or an attack on Americans: Those cars are designed in other countries to be larger specifically for America taste. Americans visit Europe and chuckle at the "tiny" cars, which are in fact perfectly appropriate for three children. And those cars were designed by the same companies for European standards. To me, that reads as fetishization on a mass cultural level, and while you can point the finger anywhere you like that fact will remain at the core. There is no justification, on a planet burning faster every year, for the ridiculously oversized cars Americans choose. None.
    - ericmay 5y ago
      When you call it a fesithization that is definitely interpreted by me as an attack/insult and I don't think it adds any value, and probably strengthens convictions of people who drive large SUVs. Are Germans fetishzing Russian natural gas? No. It's incentives and economics, and poor government choices based on poor assumptions about the state of the world (same with America, gas, and the suburbs). You're mixing up a preference based on no immediate negative repercussions with Pimp My Ride. Believe it or not, Americans are just regular people. Immigrants to the U.S. don't walk from point to point, they buy large SUVs too. If Americans are burning the planet (and we are, to be clear, with bone-headed city and urban planning decisions) than auto manufacturers from other countries absolutely share the blame, including their employees (to the same extent you'd blame an American for buying a large SUV) for selling the fuel and matches and advertising how cool the fuel and matches are, especially when used together.
7952 5y ago
Cars are a fashion item though and that does allow car companies to push products that are not always ideal for how they are going to be used. I am not saying we should ban things neccesarily but some basic consumer protection is a good idea. And that should include sane emission levels in the same was as seatbelts.
snthd 5y ago
Take almost any car slogan - they aren't about getting from A to B, they're all about fetishising cars. I assume they know how to sell, and that fetishisation works. >It's not some insidious plot to keep you from walking around your city. It's exactly that. "Jaywalking" was promoted by the US auto industry. It doesn't exist in most countries. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797
- mackatap 5y ago
  Your argument about car slogans could be applied to the advertisement of nearly anything. Computer ads aren't about how reliable and well built the parts are, it's about how it will "unlock creative potential" or make you a "pro gamer". That's just modern advertising and I don't think it's a reflection on people's day to day feelings about their objects. It gets a sale.
ngcazz 5y ago
Maybe that choice of word is ham-fisted, but there’s no doubt that personal automobiles enjoy a cultural and economic supremacy that should be challenged.
- pc86 5y ago
  > that should be challenged I'm still waiting for a coherent challenge that isn't 1) we need to completely change the economy and how geography works because climate change; or, 2) I don't like the people who really like cars.
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    People forget EVs were long seen as a useless literally-who-asked type of thing, until they weren't. All we need to do is have a train or bus beat an ICE supercar in a race.

drewwwwww 5y ago

them living far away from their jobs or preferred places to go were not values free choices made in a vacuum, and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise to make some kind of point about how the status quo is a law of the universe.

mandmandam 5y ago

> Your average person driving a car in the US isn't "fetishizing" anything. They live in a big-ass country where a lot of things they care about are far away. Having a car allows them to get to their job, see their family, and so on. Americans are mocked worldwide for their ridiculous cars. Oversized, gas guzzling, ostentatious, and yes - fetishized cars are associated with Americans worldwide. > It's not some insidious plot to keep you from walking around your city. OP didn't say it is. However car manufacturers did in fact plot - conspired, even - to attack trams, public transport, trains, and anything else that could threaten their dominance. That's just well known fact, and I don't know why you're defending any of this. Have you ever actually traveled outside America and seen how much nicer it is to be able to walk around a city that isn't designed completely around cars? It's a far, far superior daily experience.

cplusplusfellow 5y ago
Most of those cities were designed when horses weren’t even an option. But some of us don’t consider that nicer.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ericmay 5y ago
So you can check my post history and I’m super pro-walkable city neighborhood, etc. My wife and I only own one car that we share and that’s even in the suburbs. But remind me. Where are BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Jaguar, Rolls Royce, and others HQ’d? While Americans have larger vehicles we also have more space and unfortunately a society designed around cars. I don’t get how we are “fetishizing” cars when almost all of the actual fetish vehicles are designed in other countries. Everyday people buying a giant SUV are almost certainly not fetishizing it. They just have 3 kids and it’s easy and they sit up high on the road. I agree completely with the rest of your post, though. I’m experiencing some schadenfreude (not in a serious manner) with those multi-car households and giant gas-guzzling vehicles having to experience a bit of the costs for the world they advocate for when they typically do not. Problem is they vote, even against their (and my) long-term interests.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  This is not to be read as a defense of car companies, or an attack on Americans: Those cars are designed in other countries to be larger specifically for America taste. Americans visit Europe and chuckle at the "tiny" cars, which are in fact perfectly appropriate for three children. And those cars were designed by the same companies for European standards. To me, that reads as fetishization on a mass cultural level, and while you can point the finger anywhere you like that fact will remain at the core. There is no justification, on a planet burning faster every year, for the ridiculously oversized cars Americans choose. None.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    When you call it a fesithization that is definitely interpreted by me as an attack/insult and I don't think it adds any value, and probably strengthens convictions of people who drive large SUVs. Are Germans fetishzing Russian natural gas? No. It's incentives and economics, and poor government choices based on poor assumptions about the state of the world (same with America, gas, and the suburbs). You're mixing up a preference based on no immediate negative repercussions with Pimp My Ride. Believe it or not, Americans are just regular people. Immigrants to the U.S. don't walk from point to point, they buy large SUVs too. If Americans are burning the planet (and we are, to be clear, with bone-headed city and urban planning decisions) than auto manufacturers from other countries absolutely share the blame, including their employees (to the same extent you'd blame an American for buying a large SUV) for selling the fuel and matches and advertising how cool the fuel and matches are, especially when used together.

7952 5y ago

Cars are a fashion item though and that does allow car companies to push products that are not always ideal for how they are going to be used. I am not saying we should ban things neccesarily but some basic consumer protection is a good idea. And that should include sane emission levels in the same was as seatbelts.

snthd 5y ago

Take almost any car slogan - they aren't about getting from A to B, they're all about fetishising cars. I assume they know how to sell, and that fetishisation works. >It's not some insidious plot to keep you from walking around your city. It's exactly that. "Jaywalking" was promoted by the US auto industry. It doesn't exist in most countries. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797

mackatap 5y ago
Your argument about car slogans could be applied to the advertisement of nearly anything. Computer ads aren't about how reliable and well built the parts are, it's about how it will "unlock creative potential" or make you a "pro gamer". That's just modern advertising and I don't think it's a reflection on people's day to day feelings about their objects. It gets a sale.

ngcazz 5y ago

Maybe that choice of word is ham-fisted, but there’s no doubt that personal automobiles enjoy a cultural and economic supremacy that should be challenged.

pc86 5y ago
> that should be challenged I'm still waiting for a coherent challenge that isn't 1) we need to completely change the economy and how geography works because climate change; or, 2) I don't like the people who really like cars.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  People forget EVs were long seen as a useless literally-who-asked type of thing, until they weren't. All we need to do is have a train or bus beat an ICE supercar in a race.