5 ms·

The Russia investigation coverage changed my view on the limits and possibilities of propaganda. Have never been more cynical of humanity, or rather, people ru

The Russia investigation coverage changed my view on the limits and possibilities of propaganda. Have never been more cynical of humanity, or rather, people running the show commonly have the same abilities as the school teacher at the local public school

MrMan 5y ago
- hericium 5y ago
  If you can buy elected US president to advertise your canned food from the Oval Office, why wouldn't you be able to buy ads, presenters and silent control over media?
  - fragmede 5y ago
    Because the conceit is, that only idiots believe propaganda, and of course, I'm no idiot. Unfortunately the reverse it true - that the smarter someone believes they are, the more they buy into some crazy theory, and then dig their heels in. Only people that know how smart they aren't can be humble enough to question everything, especially a narrative that the media has formed, and believe the truth contained within.
- roenxi 5y ago
  There is an unlikely but uncomfortably high chance that US-Russian relations are about to spill over into an apocalyptic nuclear war and the US government have gone cold-war mode and are attempting to remove Russia from the global economy. What exactly do you think Russia's goals here are? Because it doesn't look like they have been achieved. Or made serious progress in them. Presumably those goals involve survival.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    - roenxi 5y ago
      And at what point does this foreign influence they purchase fit in to that plan? There were people who appeared to literally be claiming that Russians controlled the US presidency just a few years ago. The only change, I suppose, is when this bullshit "Russian influence" was at its peak the world was more peaceful. & that is a bit of a non-sequiter, but a major world power invades a minor one once every decade or so. Nobody got this worked up about it for decades. It certainly isn't worth risking nukes flying.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        roenxi 5y ago
        > Oh, that's allright then. Business as usual, carry on then. Based on an estimate of the median age in Ukraine (41, [0]), most Ukrainians have been governed from Moscow at some point in their lives. We might be looking at an agressive expansionist power, but we also might not be. The borders of Russia are going in the wrong direction for an aggressive nation. It is a lot less clear cut than every adventure the US has gone on in the Middle East in recent times. This basically is business as usual. Is this invasion good? No. Is it pretty routine in global politics? Yes. It is a good time for a measured response. And the ghastly spectre of pervasive Russian disinformation appears to have done zip, zilch, zero & nothing to help them. Probably because it only existed in the minds of misinformation specialists like CNN. > After all, after Ukraine, the Baltics, not worth nukes flying, right? Then maybe Poland. Czechia, Slowakia, Serbia (who might actually be happy), Croatia, Slovenia. Then maybe Romania and Bulgaria. None of which are worth nukes flying right? Then Germany, because hey, nukes. Russia couldn't pretend to pull that off. Poland has a GDP within an order of magnitude of Russia's and is a NATO member; they couldn't do it. And Germany would swat them down in a direct fight - Russia would be the underdog in that war. Russia is already struggling enough fighting in Ukraine, let alone trying to take on consecutive wars. EDIT > and Trump apologists have smoothly moved to Putin apologists instead A really attractive part of Trump's pitch was that he would try to de-escalate US-Russia relations and keep things civil between the two powers. I don't think he said it but there was faint hope for a wink-wink-maybe-we're-all-against-China approach. There is a reason you see overlap between people who liked Trump's foreign policy ideas and people who don't want war with Russia. The entire strategic position of aggression against Russia is stupid, a Russia-China alliance would be far too good for both of them (one has resources, one has manufacturing know-how). [0] https://www.worlddata.info/average-age.php https://www.worlddata.info/average-age.php
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    This isn't the cold war in the Soviet era. Russia stalled 30 years, while US went *14. They are similar to Italy now and think they still matter, while it's only the nukes that give them some relevancy on the global stage.
- Amezarak 5y ago
  What countries do you believe are not buying influence in the US?
- factcheck1234 5y ago
  Please stop spreading misinformation. The narrative that the Russians influenced the 2016 election is a baseless conspiracy theory that has long since been debunked as is the theory you're promoting about Tucker Carlson. If you have reliable evidence you should post it but I thought posting misinformation isn't allowed here
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
chimpansteve 5y ago
It's the Gell-Mann amnesia effect (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton#GellMannAmnesiaEffect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton#GellMannAmn...) in full flow. Journalists, almost entirely as a group, are experts in nothing. Colossaly ill informed on every subject, and "research" consists of scrolling through Twitter to find a point of view that backs up their preexisting predudices. These days, many struggle with even basic English and grammar. I'm not even giving them the credit of indulging in propaganda, because that requires some actual critical thought and intelligence. They're just bad at their job.
- JeremyNT 5y ago
  > Journalists, almost entirely as a group, are experts in nothing. Colossaly ill informed on every subject, and "research" consists of scrolling through Twitter to find a point of view that backs up their preexisting predudices. These days, many struggle with even basic English and grammar. News outlets have incentives to create clickbait (or to favor stories that otherwise align with the motivations of their financial stakeholders), and "access reporters" have incentives to cozy up to their subjects. But there are many, many journalists out there doing the actual work of researching subjects in depth and reporting on them to the best of their capability. This story we're discussing right now - which exposes the corruption at CNN - wasn't generated by some layabout scrolling through their twitter timeline.
  - gutitout 5y ago
    At this point it is beyond clickbait / views / funding. It’s clearly pushing the agenda of a small group of people.
    - Zerverus 5y ago
      Which is yet to be proven worse than the stupidity of the masses
- treeman79 5y ago
  Spent some time in tech side of journalism in late 90s. LA times related. Someone would write an article bashing some group of other. Group would gets pissed. We meet with group. Guys in charge won’t talk about past. Only about moving forward. Rinse and repeat. Higher ups only lived in the moment.
ozzythecat 5y ago
> The Russia investigation coverage changed my view on the limits and possibilities of propaganda. What strikes me is the gall and brazen dishonesty in American “news” media. Billionaire Russians are “oligarchs” and painted as Russia’s .1% who influence or control the country. And don’t forget about Russia’s “state-run media”, who surely we should never trust. Meanwhile, America’s media itself is controlled by wealthy private interests - the same ones that influence minds and shape political outcomes. They’ve done immeasurable damage insofar as dividing this country, turning even families against one another over politics. What’s especially striking is how much American media interests want to glue eyeballs and sell the Ukraine conflict. It’s no doubt a horrible, horrible disaster for the Ukrainian people. But the powers that be have decided to go next level in humanizing the conflict. We’re shown footage of blue eyes white people escaping bombs, often carrying their cats and dogs. We’re even given names of individuals murdered by the Russian bombing. Where has all this coverage been in all of Americas own war, often bombing brown people everywhere from the Middle East to South East Asia? The propaganda is on overdrive. Yesterday, I saw a CNN segment where they kept parroting Biden’s pitch that Putin is responsible for Americas inflation.

MrMan 5y ago

hericium 5y ago
If you can buy elected US president to advertise your canned food from the Oval Office, why wouldn't you be able to buy ads, presenters and silent control over media?
- fragmede 5y ago
  Because the conceit is, that only idiots believe propaganda, and of course, I'm no idiot. Unfortunately the reverse it true - that the smarter someone believes they are, the more they buy into some crazy theory, and then dig their heels in. Only people that know how smart they aren't can be humble enough to question everything, especially a narrative that the media has formed, and believe the truth contained within.
roenxi 5y ago
There is an unlikely but uncomfortably high chance that US-Russian relations are about to spill over into an apocalyptic nuclear war and the US government have gone cold-war mode and are attempting to remove Russia from the global economy. What exactly do you think Russia's goals here are? Because it doesn't look like they have been achieved. Or made serious progress in them. Presumably those goals involve survival.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  - roenxi 5y ago
    And at what point does this foreign influence they purchase fit in to that plan? There were people who appeared to literally be claiming that Russians controlled the US presidency just a few years ago. The only change, I suppose, is when this bullshit "Russian influence" was at its peak the world was more peaceful. & that is a bit of a non-sequiter, but a major world power invades a minor one once every decade or so. Nobody got this worked up about it for decades. It certainly isn't worth risking nukes flying.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      - roenxi 5y ago
        > Oh, that's allright then. Business as usual, carry on then. Based on an estimate of the median age in Ukraine (41, [0]), most Ukrainians have been governed from Moscow at some point in their lives. We might be looking at an agressive expansionist power, but we also might not be. The borders of Russia are going in the wrong direction for an aggressive nation. It is a lot less clear cut than every adventure the US has gone on in the Middle East in recent times. This basically is business as usual. Is this invasion good? No. Is it pretty routine in global politics? Yes. It is a good time for a measured response. And the ghastly spectre of pervasive Russian disinformation appears to have done zip, zilch, zero & nothing to help them. Probably because it only existed in the minds of misinformation specialists like CNN. > After all, after Ukraine, the Baltics, not worth nukes flying, right? Then maybe Poland. Czechia, Slowakia, Serbia (who might actually be happy), Croatia, Slovenia. Then maybe Romania and Bulgaria. None of which are worth nukes flying right? Then Germany, because hey, nukes. Russia couldn't pretend to pull that off. Poland has a GDP within an order of magnitude of Russia's and is a NATO member; they couldn't do it. And Germany would swat them down in a direct fight - Russia would be the underdog in that war. Russia is already struggling enough fighting in Ukraine, let alone trying to take on consecutive wars. EDIT > and Trump apologists have smoothly moved to Putin apologists instead A really attractive part of Trump's pitch was that he would try to de-escalate US-Russia relations and keep things civil between the two powers. I don't think he said it but there was faint hope for a wink-wink-maybe-we're-all-against-China approach. There is a reason you see overlap between people who liked Trump's foreign policy ideas and people who don't want war with Russia. The entire strategic position of aggression against Russia is stupid, a Russia-China alliance would be far too good for both of them (one has resources, one has manufacturing know-how). [0] https://www.worlddata.info/average-age.php https://www.worlddata.info/average-age.php
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  This isn't the cold war in the Soviet era. Russia stalled 30 years, while US went *14. They are similar to Italy now and think they still matter, while it's only the nukes that give them some relevancy on the global stage.
Amezarak 5y ago
What countries do you believe are not buying influence in the US?
factcheck1234 5y ago
Please stop spreading misinformation. The narrative that the Russians influenced the 2016 election is a baseless conspiracy theory that has long since been debunked as is the theory you're promoting about Tucker Carlson. If you have reliable evidence you should post it but I thought posting misinformation isn't allowed here
- lern_too_spel 5y ago

chimpansteve 5y ago

It's the Gell-Mann amnesia effect (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton#GellMannAmnesiaEffect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton#GellMannAmn...) in full flow. Journalists, almost entirely as a group, are experts in nothing. Colossaly ill informed on every subject, and "research" consists of scrolling through Twitter to find a point of view that backs up their preexisting predudices. These days, many struggle with even basic English and grammar. I'm not even giving them the credit of indulging in propaganda, because that requires some actual critical thought and intelligence. They're just bad at their job.

JeremyNT 5y ago
> Journalists, almost entirely as a group, are experts in nothing. Colossaly ill informed on every subject, and "research" consists of scrolling through Twitter to find a point of view that backs up their preexisting predudices. These days, many struggle with even basic English and grammar. News outlets have incentives to create clickbait (or to favor stories that otherwise align with the motivations of their financial stakeholders), and "access reporters" have incentives to cozy up to their subjects. But there are many, many journalists out there doing the actual work of researching subjects in depth and reporting on them to the best of their capability. This story we're discussing right now - which exposes the corruption at CNN - wasn't generated by some layabout scrolling through their twitter timeline.
- gutitout 5y ago
  At this point it is beyond clickbait / views / funding. It’s clearly pushing the agenda of a small group of people.
  - Zerverus 5y ago
    Which is yet to be proven worse than the stupidity of the masses
treeman79 5y ago
Spent some time in tech side of journalism in late 90s. LA times related. Someone would write an article bashing some group of other. Group would gets pissed. We meet with group. Guys in charge won’t talk about past. Only about moving forward. Rinse and repeat. Higher ups only lived in the moment.

ozzythecat 5y ago

> The Russia investigation coverage changed my view on the limits and possibilities of propaganda. What strikes me is the gall and brazen dishonesty in American “news” media. Billionaire Russians are “oligarchs” and painted as Russia’s .1% who influence or control the country. And don’t forget about Russia’s “state-run media”, who surely we should never trust. Meanwhile, America’s media itself is controlled by wealthy private interests - the same ones that influence minds and shape political outcomes. They’ve done immeasurable damage insofar as dividing this country, turning even families against one another over politics. What’s especially striking is how much American media interests want to glue eyeballs and sell the Ukraine conflict. It’s no doubt a horrible, horrible disaster for the Ukrainian people. But the powers that be have decided to go next level in humanizing the conflict. We’re shown footage of blue eyes white people escaping bombs, often carrying their cats and dogs. We’re even given names of individuals murdered by the Russian bombing. Where has all this coverage been in all of Americas own war, often bombing brown people everywhere from the Middle East to South East Asia? The propaganda is on overdrive. Yesterday, I saw a CNN segment where they kept parroting Biden’s pitch that Putin is responsible for Americas inflation.