3 ms·

It's the horrible thought we don't want to think but it's a possibility. Question for military analysts: what is the counter to siege / artillery barrage? Gue

by nomilk 5y ago

It's the horrible thought we don't want to think but it's a possibility. Question for military analysts: what is the counter to siege / artillery barrage? Guesses: 1. dig deep bunkers to survive the weeks/months of artillery, 2. organise ambushes on the artillery (taking out a few pieces per day will add up over months), or 3. use flying forces (e.g. Bayraktar TB2). Would these counters work; are they likely to occur? Another idea is taking out the transports that resupply artillery ammo, but if they're coming from the North that probably won't work, since it's close and well protected.

bladegash 5y ago
Think the biggest issue with the more offensive actions they could take is that it’s very difficult to make troop movements or position your personnel when they are pinned down with artillery. From my view, their best options right now are to 1) minimize the number of directions/locations which they have to defend, 2) shelter and minimize losses during air raids/artillery strikes, 3) blow every single strike they make out of proportion to gain sympathy of Western partners and even Russian citizens. I’d even go so far as to start staging fabricated atrocities - the world has a short attention span and international pressure helps their cause). 4) employ unconventional warfare, including coordinated psychological operations directed towards Russian citizens and military members/their families (e.g., their mothers). These are all things I’m pretty sure they’re doing right now and is part of their strategy. Authoritarian governments have some positives, but central decision making is also a glaringly vulnerability. The same person who can decide to start a war, is the same person who can be the target of an entire war effort to try and persuade them to stop the war. Let’s just say, we probably don’t even hear about/know half of what is going on behind the scenes/clandestinely to sabotage Russia’s potential for success right now.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- gruez 5y ago
  - magicalist 5y ago
    This seems needlessly off topic and flamebaity.
    - gruez 5y ago
      If you can come up with another example of "noble lie that went badly", I'm all for it.
      - bladegash 5y ago
        Sure, all things going great and your life isn’t under threat, ethics are important and Id encourage people to refrain from lying or harming others. However, you do not always get to choose the situations you face in life and there is a reason war is described as “hell”. People sacrifice more than just their physical well-being (e.g., think along the idea behind Sophie’s Choice). It is just the reality that sabotage, deception, and espionage are used and in many ways just as important for winning wars (aka, survival) as any other military tactic/strategy (just look to influential and studied military tacticians such as Sun Tzu, Cardinal Richelieu, or Clausewitz).
        gruez 5y ago
        >It is just the reality that sabotage, deception, and espionage are used and in many ways just as important for winning wars (aka, survival) as any other military tactic/strategy (just look to influential and studied military tacticians such as Sun Tzu, Cardinal Richelieu, or Clausewitz). If we accept that, then we basically also accept that in war, it's expected that everything coming out from both sides is going to be lies and propaganda, so there's no need to take anything seriously. Sounds like exactly what putin wants for his PR war. Are russians committing war crimes in ukraine? The ukranians say so, but we all know they're going to be lying anyways, so who knows?
steve76 5y ago
wolverine876 5y ago
Ignore them, as much as possible. They are mostly ineffective against insurgencies (unless you kill everyone, which the Russians probably won't do). The only option to defeat insurgencies is with ground forces. > Another idea is taking out the transports that resupply artillery ammo Definitely part of insurgent warfare - attack the weak spots. I don't have it in front of me, but one military expert said the soft underbelly of a seige is the outer ring - the outside of the siege.
philwelch 5y ago
If you have your own artillery and the right radar/targeting equipment, counterbattery fire. The counter to counterbattery fire is to use self-propelled artillery and “shoot and scoot”, but the muddy conditions in Ukraine might complicate the scooting aspect. Russian doctrine dubs artillery the “god of war” and they have more artillery than Ukraine, but Western radar and targeting might make Ukraine’s artillery more precise. Hard to tell. Would have been nice to set Ukraine up with that stuff before the invasion.

by nomilk 5y ago

bladegash 5y ago

Think the biggest issue with the more offensive actions they could take is that it’s very difficult to make troop movements or position your personnel when they are pinned down with artillery. From my view, their best options right now are to 1) minimize the number of directions/locations which they have to defend, 2) shelter and minimize losses during air raids/artillery strikes, 3) blow every single strike they make out of proportion to gain sympathy of Western partners and even Russian citizens. I’d even go so far as to start staging fabricated atrocities - the world has a short attention span and international pressure helps their cause). 4) employ unconventional warfare, including coordinated psychological operations directed towards Russian citizens and military members/their families (e.g., their mothers). These are all things I’m pretty sure they’re doing right now and is part of their strategy. Authoritarian governments have some positives, but central decision making is also a glaringly vulnerability. The same person who can decide to start a war, is the same person who can be the target of an entire war effort to try and persuade them to stop the war. Let’s just say, we probably don’t even hear about/know half of what is going on behind the scenes/clandestinely to sabotage Russia’s potential for success right now.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gruez 5y ago
- magicalist 5y ago
  This seems needlessly off topic and flamebaity.
  - gruez 5y ago
    If you can come up with another example of "noble lie that went badly", I'm all for it.
    - bladegash 5y ago
      Sure, all things going great and your life isn’t under threat, ethics are important and Id encourage people to refrain from lying or harming others. However, you do not always get to choose the situations you face in life and there is a reason war is described as “hell”. People sacrifice more than just their physical well-being (e.g., think along the idea behind Sophie’s Choice). It is just the reality that sabotage, deception, and espionage are used and in many ways just as important for winning wars (aka, survival) as any other military tactic/strategy (just look to influential and studied military tacticians such as Sun Tzu, Cardinal Richelieu, or Clausewitz).
      - gruez 5y ago
        >It is just the reality that sabotage, deception, and espionage are used and in many ways just as important for winning wars (aka, survival) as any other military tactic/strategy (just look to influential and studied military tacticians such as Sun Tzu, Cardinal Richelieu, or Clausewitz). If we accept that, then we basically also accept that in war, it's expected that everything coming out from both sides is going to be lies and propaganda, so there's no need to take anything seriously. Sounds like exactly what putin wants for his PR war. Are russians committing war crimes in ukraine? The ukranians say so, but we all know they're going to be lying anyways, so who knows?

steve76 5y ago

wolverine876 5y ago

Ignore them, as much as possible. They are mostly ineffective against insurgencies (unless you kill everyone, which the Russians probably won't do). The only option to defeat insurgencies is with ground forces. > Another idea is taking out the transports that resupply artillery ammo Definitely part of insurgent warfare - attack the weak spots. I don't have it in front of me, but one military expert said the soft underbelly of a seige is the outer ring - the outside of the siege.

philwelch 5y ago

If you have your own artillery and the right radar/targeting equipment, counterbattery fire. The counter to counterbattery fire is to use self-propelled artillery and “shoot and scoot”, but the muddy conditions in Ukraine might complicate the scooting aspect. Russian doctrine dubs artillery the “god of war” and they have more artillery than Ukraine, but Western radar and targeting might make Ukraine’s artillery more precise. Hard to tell. Would have been nice to set Ukraine up with that stuff before the invasion.