12 ms·

EU Commission demands Google takedown RT and Sputnik from search results

37 points by hirundo 5y ago

ithkuil 5y ago
Can this be verified or is this misinformation?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- yurish 5y ago
  Quick search shows that this is not misinformation, for example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/09/eu-google-sanctions/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/09/eu-goog...
rurban 5y ago
Will they also censor western professional misinformation sites then? Like DLF, Zeit, Welt, BBC, NyTimes, WaPo just for the biggest. It's a joke
- YokoSix 5y ago
  Are you really comparing state-owned agencies to independent media companies?
  - sirwhinesalot 5y ago
    > Independent They're not state-owned but they are certainly not independent. All mainstream media is tightly bound to a political party or another. Fox and MSNBC are mirrors of misinformation.
    - YokoSix 5y ago
      >Bound to a political party or another That's the difference between Fox News and RT. Even though the US president is a democrat now, Fox News is still broadcasting Republican views. But as soon as Russia replaces its president, RT is going to broadcast exactly his or her views.
      - sirwhinesalot 5y ago
        This is true, but more of a problem than you're making it out to be. In my country all channels are clearly on the payroll of a certain party. For example, if there is a political debate, they'll have pre and post debate interviews with only one of the candidates, make claims of his victory no matter how badly he screwed up, and always allow him to interrupt the other guy. This sort of stuff really undermines democracy.
  - kwonkicker 5y ago
    "Independent" is a relative term
  - dontlaugh 5y ago
    BBC is state owned.
    - YokoSix 5y ago
      It is not. The BBC is public owned.
      - orra 5y ago
        The chairman of the board, and several other members, is appointed by the UK head of state (the monarch), on recommendation of government ministers. There is also a revolving door between high up positions in the Tory party (the party of government), and high up positions in the BBC. That screams more "state" than "public" control.
      - slim 5y ago
        neither is RT. It's owned by a company named ANO tv novosti
        rad_gruchalski 5y ago
        Sure: RT (formerly Russia Today or Rossiya Segodnya)[10] is a Russian state-controlled[1] international television network funded by the tax budget of the Russian government. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)
        dontlaugh 5y ago
        Exactly like the BBC, yes. Wikipedia portrays it differently, I wonder why.
        rad_gruchalski 5y ago
        > Exactly like the BBC, yes. No, not really: https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/licencefee https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/licencefee.
  - xg15 5y ago
    How about Radio Free X/Radio Liberty?
- realusername 5y ago
  Imagine comparing those media to RT haha
guilhas 5y ago
Interesting how we point at Russia for not having liberty of information. But at this war we are throwing all the first punches This is way past ridiculous, not to mention social media allowing violence Looks like a "all in" from a desperate EU/UK/USA having been handed a losing hand
- fwdpropaganda 5y ago
- estaseuropano 5y ago
  Nonsense "first punches". Russia has been censoring media within Russia for many years, and has gone increasingly harsh. The RT ban in Europe came after Russia banned several western and local critical media and disaccredited journalists. In addition RT and Sputnik have been spreading literal fake news for years to rail up opposition to national governments both with a pro Russia slant but often simply to attack national policy and cause rifts with minority groups or migrants (e.g. [1]) [1] https://observers.france24.com/en/20160128-fake-video-german-woman-kidnapping-rape-russia https://observers.france24.com/en/20160128-fake-video-german...
  - guilhas 5y ago
    CNN and BBC are also debunked or misreport frequently and Russia didn't rush to ban them If RT lied it would have gone to due process It was a clear political decision to ban TV channel, online channels, and now search engine result. Coordinated between EU/UK/US leaders https://observers.france24.com/en/europe/20220301-video-debunked-russian-tank-crush-civilian-car-kyiv https://observers.france24.com/en/europe/20220301-video-debu... Almost all "independent" or not media sources reported the tank being Russian and most still do
    - estaseuropano 5y ago
      This is whataboutism. BBC might be biased but it is not straight propaganda and lies as RT. Honestly there is no point in discussing this if you cannot see the difference between a state sponsored channel that pumps out literal lies and fake footage, invents conspiracy theories, and tries to sow hate against e.g. jews and migrants vs one that has a conservative and pro-British bent but is free to criticise the government and often does so. BBC is boring and conservative and I would rarely waste my time on it, but it is an entirely different category of media.
Proven 5y ago
ithkuil 5y ago
I can't understand how this can be compatible with western liberal values. Even floating this idea in an informal not binding way will do damage to the reputation of who is criticizing an authoritarian state. How can any benefit offset an own goal of this magnitude? If they are doing something wrong, file a formal lawsuit etc, but removing from search results? Seriously?
- throwawaymanbot 5y ago
dgut 5y ago
A more reasonable demand would be to have a warning sign for government propaganda websites, without that affecting ranking. Search engines and video hosting platforms like YouTube aren't the same. The first aims to be an index of all the information available on the internet, akin to "the eyes of the internet". When a search engine censors content, we lose sight of our surroundings. The second (e.g YT) hosts the content itself and is more akin to a hotel, in which case there is no expectation that it should host any given content.
rdrock 5y ago
Talk principles when others are concerned, protect interests when it concerns them. The hypocrisy, condescension and self-righteousness of the entire western world is on display in this conflict. The relentless onslaught of western propaganda might have worked 20 years ago, but is mostly a self goal now and a bubble for their own populace to bask in moral high ground. From Gulf to Africa and Asia, countries are paying lip service at best to western narrative or downright ignoring it. Everyone acknowledges Putin as a dangerous individual, sympathizes with plight of Ukrainians but knows west lead Ukraine on, refused to listen to Russian concerns (valid or not), all for a defunct military alliance that has lost its purpose and only exists for expansion.
- djohnston 5y ago
  If everyone sympathizes why is the west and its close allies the only ones doing anything about it? If you're statement is accurate, doubtful but lets pretend, then if anything that adds more relevance to the reinvigorating of the West's military investments and treaties.
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  > Everyone ... knows west lead Ukraine on, refused to listen to Russian concerns (valid or not), all for a defunct military alliance that has lost its purpose and only exists for expansion. This is just propaganda of another kind. NATO exists to protect states from the terror of bully-states like Russia. That's why you see states famously neutral now clamoring to get in. Russia concern-trolled its way right into an invasion and it looks like its propaganda worked, on you.
  - pomdapi 5y ago
    There's plenty of concern trolling to go around. And Poroshenko sending the army and battalions of neo-nazis to attack Ukraine's own citizens wasn't a first punch thrown by a bully ? Why didn't NATO nations or the UN react then to stop the massacre ? They happily ignored it, which gave Putin the excuse then for Crimea and to send his famous "Green Men" back then. Letting it rot, and worse, enabling the worst elements of Ukranian society gave him an excuse in front ofthe Russian public to start this whole murderous theater piece now. Similarly, 5.4 million dead in Congo between 1998 - 2008. What did anybody do about it ? Nothing. Most people in the west don't even know it happened. Same as Yemen's 370'000 dead. I'll also conveniently skip Lybia, Afghanistan, Iraq's million dead from sanctions, or more recently arming and funding Isis and Al-Quaed against Assad. So let's pretend this has anything to do with any morals or protection of others from bullies, or democracy - or if you think different I'd say your local propaganda worked on you. NATO is just the stick to the western lifestyle carrot - while in fact setup for an extractive system centered on dollar surplus recycled by the world's regional elites through Wall Street. Russia, China, Putin and Xi are trying to create their own opposing version, and will be using the coming economic crisis born of this war to effect it. It's all just the Great Game of colonial great powers all over again, 2022 Modern Redux.
xg15 5y ago
I found it somewhat funny that a few weeks ago, there was a discussion in Germany about banning Telegram for spreading Coronavirus misinformation and giving covid deniers a space to organise. (Though to admit, it was never banned in the end) Feed forward to last week and Telegram is hailed as a beacon of free speech in Russia and as one of the last options for Russians to find out the truth...
- HWR_14 5y ago
  One German minister suggested it be banned. A few NGOs agreed. And a couple officials thought it might be against the App Stores' EULAs and should be discussed with Google/Apple. Let's not overstate the support for it.
  - im3w1l 5y ago
    Those statements were moves in a bargaining game where the real goal was to get telegram to take down certain channels. Telegram ended up doing just that. Germany's Interior minister, who threatened to shut telegram down, explained that "the pressure is working" https://www.dw.com/en/telegram-blocks-over-60-channels-in-germany-report/a-60752775 https://www.dw.com/en/telegram-blocks-over-60-channels-in-ge...
Ekaros 5y ago
The hints were there during this pandemic. Now it is clear... We are all doomed...

37 points by hirundo 5y ago

ithkuil 5y ago

Can this be verified or is this misinformation?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
yurish 5y ago
Quick search shows that this is not misinformation, for example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/09/eu-google-sanctions/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/09/eu-goog...

rurban 5y ago

Will they also censor western professional misinformation sites then? Like DLF, Zeit, Welt, BBC, NyTimes, WaPo just for the biggest. It's a joke

YokoSix 5y ago
Are you really comparing state-owned agencies to independent media companies?
- sirwhinesalot 5y ago
  > Independent They're not state-owned but they are certainly not independent. All mainstream media is tightly bound to a political party or another. Fox and MSNBC are mirrors of misinformation.
  - YokoSix 5y ago
    >Bound to a political party or another That's the difference between Fox News and RT. Even though the US president is a democrat now, Fox News is still broadcasting Republican views. But as soon as Russia replaces its president, RT is going to broadcast exactly his or her views.
    - sirwhinesalot 5y ago
      This is true, but more of a problem than you're making it out to be. In my country all channels are clearly on the payroll of a certain party. For example, if there is a political debate, they'll have pre and post debate interviews with only one of the candidates, make claims of his victory no matter how badly he screwed up, and always allow him to interrupt the other guy. This sort of stuff really undermines democracy.
- kwonkicker 5y ago
  "Independent" is a relative term
- dontlaugh 5y ago
  BBC is state owned.
  - YokoSix 5y ago
    It is not. The BBC is public owned.
    - orra 5y ago
      The chairman of the board, and several other members, is appointed by the UK head of state (the monarch), on recommendation of government ministers. There is also a revolving door between high up positions in the Tory party (the party of government), and high up positions in the BBC. That screams more "state" than "public" control.
    - slim 5y ago
      neither is RT. It's owned by a company named ANO tv novosti
      - rad_gruchalski 5y ago
        Sure: RT (formerly Russia Today or Rossiya Segodnya)[10] is a Russian state-controlled[1] international television network funded by the tax budget of the Russian government. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)
        dontlaugh 5y ago
        Exactly like the BBC, yes. Wikipedia portrays it differently, I wonder why.
        rad_gruchalski 5y ago
        > Exactly like the BBC, yes. No, not really: https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/licencefee https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/licencefee.
- xg15 5y ago
  How about Radio Free X/Radio Liberty?
realusername 5y ago
Imagine comparing those media to RT haha

guilhas 5y ago

Interesting how we point at Russia for not having liberty of information. But at this war we are throwing all the first punches This is way past ridiculous, not to mention social media allowing violence Looks like a "all in" from a desperate EU/UK/USA having been handed a losing hand

fwdpropaganda 5y ago
estaseuropano 5y ago
Nonsense "first punches". Russia has been censoring media within Russia for many years, and has gone increasingly harsh. The RT ban in Europe came after Russia banned several western and local critical media and disaccredited journalists. In addition RT and Sputnik have been spreading literal fake news for years to rail up opposition to national governments both with a pro Russia slant but often simply to attack national policy and cause rifts with minority groups or migrants (e.g. [1]) [1] https://observers.france24.com/en/20160128-fake-video-german-woman-kidnapping-rape-russia https://observers.france24.com/en/20160128-fake-video-german...
- guilhas 5y ago
  CNN and BBC are also debunked or misreport frequently and Russia didn't rush to ban them If RT lied it would have gone to due process It was a clear political decision to ban TV channel, online channels, and now search engine result. Coordinated between EU/UK/US leaders https://observers.france24.com/en/europe/20220301-video-debunked-russian-tank-crush-civilian-car-kyiv https://observers.france24.com/en/europe/20220301-video-debu... Almost all "independent" or not media sources reported the tank being Russian and most still do
  - estaseuropano 5y ago
    This is whataboutism. BBC might be biased but it is not straight propaganda and lies as RT. Honestly there is no point in discussing this if you cannot see the difference between a state sponsored channel that pumps out literal lies and fake footage, invents conspiracy theories, and tries to sow hate against e.g. jews and migrants vs one that has a conservative and pro-British bent but is free to criticise the government and often does so. BBC is boring and conservative and I would rarely waste my time on it, but it is an entirely different category of media.

Proven 5y ago

ithkuil 5y ago

I can't understand how this can be compatible with western liberal values. Even floating this idea in an informal not binding way will do damage to the reputation of who is criticizing an authoritarian state. How can any benefit offset an own goal of this magnitude? If they are doing something wrong, file a formal lawsuit etc, but removing from search results? Seriously?

throwawaymanbot 5y ago

dgut 5y ago

A more reasonable demand would be to have a warning sign for government propaganda websites, without that affecting ranking. Search engines and video hosting platforms like YouTube aren't the same. The first aims to be an index of all the information available on the internet, akin to "the eyes of the internet". When a search engine censors content, we lose sight of our surroundings. The second (e.g YT) hosts the content itself and is more akin to a hotel, in which case there is no expectation that it should host any given content.

rdrock 5y ago

Talk principles when others are concerned, protect interests when it concerns them. The hypocrisy, condescension and self-righteousness of the entire western world is on display in this conflict. The relentless onslaught of western propaganda might have worked 20 years ago, but is mostly a self goal now and a bubble for their own populace to bask in moral high ground. From Gulf to Africa and Asia, countries are paying lip service at best to western narrative or downright ignoring it. Everyone acknowledges Putin as a dangerous individual, sympathizes with plight of Ukrainians but knows west lead Ukraine on, refused to listen to Russian concerns (valid or not), all for a defunct military alliance that has lost its purpose and only exists for expansion.

djohnston 5y ago
If everyone sympathizes why is the west and its close allies the only ones doing anything about it? If you're statement is accurate, doubtful but lets pretend, then if anything that adds more relevance to the reinvigorating of the West's military investments and treaties.
emptysongglass 5y ago
> Everyone ... knows west lead Ukraine on, refused to listen to Russian concerns (valid or not), all for a defunct military alliance that has lost its purpose and only exists for expansion. This is just propaganda of another kind. NATO exists to protect states from the terror of bully-states like Russia. That's why you see states famously neutral now clamoring to get in. Russia concern-trolled its way right into an invasion and it looks like its propaganda worked, on you.
- pomdapi 5y ago
  There's plenty of concern trolling to go around. And Poroshenko sending the army and battalions of neo-nazis to attack Ukraine's own citizens wasn't a first punch thrown by a bully ? Why didn't NATO nations or the UN react then to stop the massacre ? They happily ignored it, which gave Putin the excuse then for Crimea and to send his famous "Green Men" back then. Letting it rot, and worse, enabling the worst elements of Ukranian society gave him an excuse in front ofthe Russian public to start this whole murderous theater piece now. Similarly, 5.4 million dead in Congo between 1998 - 2008. What did anybody do about it ? Nothing. Most people in the west don't even know it happened. Same as Yemen's 370'000 dead. I'll also conveniently skip Lybia, Afghanistan, Iraq's million dead from sanctions, or more recently arming and funding Isis and Al-Quaed against Assad. So let's pretend this has anything to do with any morals or protection of others from bullies, or democracy - or if you think different I'd say your local propaganda worked on you. NATO is just the stick to the western lifestyle carrot - while in fact setup for an extractive system centered on dollar surplus recycled by the world's regional elites through Wall Street. Russia, China, Putin and Xi are trying to create their own opposing version, and will be using the coming economic crisis born of this war to effect it. It's all just the Great Game of colonial great powers all over again, 2022 Modern Redux.

xg15 5y ago

I found it somewhat funny that a few weeks ago, there was a discussion in Germany about banning Telegram for spreading Coronavirus misinformation and giving covid deniers a space to organise. (Though to admit, it was never banned in the end) Feed forward to last week and Telegram is hailed as a beacon of free speech in Russia and as one of the last options for Russians to find out the truth...

HWR_14 5y ago
One German minister suggested it be banned. A few NGOs agreed. And a couple officials thought it might be against the App Stores' EULAs and should be discussed with Google/Apple. Let's not overstate the support for it.
- im3w1l 5y ago
  Those statements were moves in a bargaining game where the real goal was to get telegram to take down certain channels. Telegram ended up doing just that. Germany's Interior minister, who threatened to shut telegram down, explained that "the pressure is working" https://www.dw.com/en/telegram-blocks-over-60-channels-in-germany-report/a-60752775 https://www.dw.com/en/telegram-blocks-over-60-channels-in-ge...

Ekaros 5y ago

The hints were there during this pandemic. Now it is clear... We are all doomed...