6 ms·

Since you are purporting that falsehood is never wrong... exodus 1:15-20 (NRSV) The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiphrah

by timtadh 15y ago

Since you are purporting that falsehood is never wrong... exodus 1:15-20 (NRSV) The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiphrah and the other Puah, ‘When you act as midwives to the Hebrew women, and see them on the birthstool, if it is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, she shall live.’ But the midwives feared God; they did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but they let the boys live. So the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and said to them, ‘Why have you done this, and allowed the boys to live?’ The midwives said to Pharaoh, ‘Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women; for they are vigorous and give birth before the midwife comes to them.’ So God dealt well with the midwives; and the people multiplied and became very strong. tl;dr : The king told midwives to kill baby boys. The midwives did not. When asked by the king why the boys still lived, they lied.

zeteo 15y ago
No, I'm not purporting that "falsehood is never wrong" (you meant "never right", I suppose). In context, I was talking about falsification of records with an intention to obtain educational benefits otherwise disallowed.
- wnight 15y ago
  So falsehood is okay when midwives save infants' lives, but not when teachers educate them?
  - zeteo 15y ago
    It's not OK to falsify records in order to get into a better school without paying extra; look at the original post, that's what the argument was about. Taking a subsequent phrase out of context and stretching it to bring in baby killing is not exactly adding to the conversation.
    - timtadh 15y ago
      Agreed. I used the passage not to equate the two but to illustrate moral issues are not always straight forward. I personally am not sure that lying your way to a better school is the right approach.
tesmar 15y ago
Did God deal well with them for not following the command of Pharaoh or for lying? It's unclear. The case you are building is not rock solid :)
- timtadh 15y ago
  Endless are the arguments of the Rabbi's. In all seriousness though, this passage was a big point of discussion in the middle ages. Many were uncomfortable with the midwives apparently being rewarded for lying. One solution was although they were rewarded they were not rewarded as much as they would have been if they had not lied. My interpretation: The midwives lied in the service of life; the God of this passage rewarded them. Therefore, the God of this passage is a God of life. He does not support needless destruction and is willing to allow his servants to lie if life increases as a result. > "The case you are building is not rock solid :)" Unfortunately, with Biblical Studies it is impossible to build a rock solid case. There is always another persuasive argument just around the corner!

by timtadh 15y ago

zeteo 15y ago

No, I'm not purporting that "falsehood is never wrong" (you meant "never right", I suppose). In context, I was talking about falsification of records with an intention to obtain educational benefits otherwise disallowed.

wnight 15y ago
So falsehood is okay when midwives save infants' lives, but not when teachers educate them?
- zeteo 15y ago
  It's not OK to falsify records in order to get into a better school without paying extra; look at the original post, that's what the argument was about. Taking a subsequent phrase out of context and stretching it to bring in baby killing is not exactly adding to the conversation.
  - timtadh 15y ago
    Agreed. I used the passage not to equate the two but to illustrate moral issues are not always straight forward. I personally am not sure that lying your way to a better school is the right approach.

tesmar 15y ago

Did God deal well with them for not following the command of Pharaoh or for lying? It's unclear. The case you are building is not rock solid :)

timtadh 15y ago
Endless are the arguments of the Rabbi's. In all seriousness though, this passage was a big point of discussion in the middle ages. Many were uncomfortable with the midwives apparently being rewarded for lying. One solution was although they were rewarded they were not rewarded as much as they would have been if they had not lied. My interpretation: The midwives lied in the service of life; the God of this passage rewarded them. Therefore, the God of this passage is a God of life. He does not support needless destruction and is willing to allow his servants to lie if life increases as a result. > "The case you are building is not rock solid :)" Unfortunately, with Biblical Studies it is impossible to build a rock solid case. There is always another persuasive argument just around the corner!