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You're intentionally leaving out the fact that a greater and greater number of manufacturer/OEMs are making necessary tools to properly debug proprietary and lo

You're intentionally leaving out the fact that a greater and greater number of manufacturer/OEMs are making necessary tools to properly debug proprietary and locked behind contracts. Or, you have a newer car and haven't had to diagnose yet a myriad of growing issues that you can't check in any way shape or form. Want to link into any car in the last 5 years can-bus for anything beyond simple air-fuel mixture issues? You can't. You can't even reliably go to a mechanic down the road, as they don't carry the 500k a year license from GM for the proprietary OBD2 scanner. This problem is 10 fold with electric cars, and 100 fold with Tesla or boutique EV manus.

jaywalk 5y ago
> Want to link into any car in the last 5 years can-bus for anything beyond simple air-fuel mixture issues? You can't. Huh, I guess I was just imagining it when I plugged into the OBD-II port on my 2020 Ford and reprogrammed a bunch of engine and transmission parameters to improve performance. I certainly didn't have any proprietary Ford software or hardware.
- markandrewj 5y ago
  It is possible for a lot of vehicles, but at the same time there are companies have been trying to make self maintenance and repair difficult. I am particularly thinking about John Deere. Although not specific to Electric vehicles. https://youtu.be/EPYy_g8NzmI https://youtu.be/EPYy_g8NzmI
  - markandrewj 5y ago
    *electric
- speeder 5y ago
  Be happy with your Ford. I had a Peugeot that required proprietary cable and software, and that software works only on Windows XP...
- shortstuffsushi 5y ago
  Don't see it in your post history, or any related profiles; care to mention or link to what you did, here or offthread? (I'm @shortstuffsushi everywhere) I also own a 2020 Ford and would be potentially interested in this.
  - nick__m 5y ago
    Forscan (Ford and Mazda) is a software you could try, assuming you have a cable like that one[1]. The free version is be able to read, reset and run diagnostic but it cannot change the car configuration. The full version can change the car configuration but you can't buy licenses for because it come from Russia. There are some boutique companies, and even some oems [2] that provide software to retune your engine but I have no experience, nor desire, to do that kind of tinkering. 1-https://www.amazon.com/Scanner-FORScan-Adapter-ELMconfig-Diagnosis/dp/B083FML519 https://www.amazon.com/Scanner-FORScan-Adapter-ELMconfig-Dia... 2- https://www.mazdaserviceinfo.com/pcm-reflashing https://www.mazdaserviceinfo.com/pcm-reflashing
  - jaywalk 5y ago
    I went through this company: https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/computer-and-tuning https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/computer-and-tuning I don't have the expertise to set up all the parameters on my own, but I'm very happy with the tune they provided.
    - BenjiWiebe 5y ago
      They've reverse engineered everything for you already, and provide firmware that accepts adjustment, and something to install that firmware. You can't do that with a generic OBD-II compliant tool and Ford's OEM firmware.
- queuebert 5y ago
  This is very common in the BMW world as well.
- Reubachi 5y ago
  If I say "You can't shoot someone", and then you shoot them.....sure! Anything is possible. In your example, have you since taken it to ford and told them you did this? Better not, as you've broken your warranty and they will see this and report that to you.They will put this information on record, and you now have a nightmare selling the vehicle. Again, and your example is a good one, ICU vehicles and manufacturers are at least addressable/self repairable. This is not the case so much for electric.
seanp2k2 5y ago
Also, the info that is exposed to end-users is awful and seems to be getting worse. We have a 2021 Volvo and it has TPMS, but the TPMS info screen on the large infotainment display shows /4 orange dots, one on each tire/ when the pressure in ANY is too low. It doesn’t tell you the actual pressures, or what they should be, just that it needs maintenance. My other 2017 Chevy tells me the ~real-time (takes a few seconds to change) pressures of all 4 tires. I know that the Volvo has this info, and a screen more than capable of displaying that info, yet someone chose instead to treat the user like an absolutely helpless idiot and basically suggest that they should stop using the vehicle immediately and have it flatbed trailered to the nearest dealership /because a single tire is a few PSI low/. I understand having idiot lights for idiots, and sure, do that on the dash, but please give end users any way to get some actual info. It’s the “door ajar” when the vehicle knows which door but doesn’t disambiguate to the user. It’s bad design, or malicious design to boost dealer profits.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  The Volvo is using an iTPMS system, which does not have absolute PSI measurements.
  - zwily 5y ago
    My Audi does this too. And despite the salesman’s insistence that it’s actually better this way, it still bugs me.
- kube-system 5y ago
  To elaborate a bit on what someone else said -- some cars with TPMS systems do not have pressure sensors at all. It is possible to add TMPS to a vehicle entirely via software by analyzing other data from existing sensors. For example, it might be looking at sensor data that looks like: Steering angle: 0 degrees LF wheel speed: 305 rpm RF wheel speed: 293 rpm LR wheel speed: 302 rpm RR wheel speed: 285 rpm In this case, it may be possible for the car to determine that you probably have some incorrect pressures, but it may not know exactly which tire(s) is/are wrong. Nor does it know what the pressures are.
tiahura 5y ago
Just an FYI, on Amazon you can buy Chinese scanners that decode proprietary OBD2 and do other handy things like the reprogramming for replacement key fobs. Mine was $150 and came with Honda support. Other manufacturers can be downloaded for $50.
flutas 5y ago
> and 100 fold with Tesla Uhhh, except I have an OBD-II adapter in mine[0] and combined with an Android app[1] can see in detail basically everything about the car, including individual battery voltages inside the cell pack? [0]: https://www.scanmytesla.com/adapters https://www.scanmytesla.com/adapters [1]: https://www.scanmytesla.com/ https://www.scanmytesla.com/
- Reubachi 5y ago
  Ok, Great! You can now monitor a piece of data you have no means whatsoever to adress outside of the tesla ecosystem. which is thrice fold not an issue with "open-er source" ICU vehicles because: 1. no concern for this battery (obvious I guess) 2. you can bring it to the mechanic down the street, 3. You can do it yourself with parts you source with a warranty that the dealer does not care about. If your battery "starts to go", do you think you can go anywhere besides Tesla, and that they will not first charge you for a diagnostic using their license ODB2 software? Your diagnostic using a non licensed odb2 scanner and....android app will not allow them to bypass the diagnostic you will certainly have to have done by them, because of their insurance/warranty process requiring licensed equipment. ICU manufacturers DO pull the same shit, but you can at least bring the car to a cheaper mechanic who is hopefully footing the bill of the tooling/license. Say you ARE Able to perform work outside of Tesla, better not tell Tesla that, or your vehicle will be blacklisted.
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>You're intentionally leaving out the fact that a greater and greater number of manufacturer/OEMs are making necessary tools to properly debug proprietary and locked behind contracts. isn't that the way every industry intersecting with IT behaves, and isn't there always someone else fighting to open it up, so https://github.com/iDoka/awesome-canbus https://github.com/iDoka/awesome-canbus A curated list of awesome tools, hardware and resources for CAN bus
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

jaywalk 5y ago

> Want to link into any car in the last 5 years can-bus for anything beyond simple air-fuel mixture issues? You can't. Huh, I guess I was just imagining it when I plugged into the OBD-II port on my 2020 Ford and reprogrammed a bunch of engine and transmission parameters to improve performance. I certainly didn't have any proprietary Ford software or hardware.

markandrewj 5y ago
It is possible for a lot of vehicles, but at the same time there are companies have been trying to make self maintenance and repair difficult. I am particularly thinking about John Deere. Although not specific to Electric vehicles. https://youtu.be/EPYy_g8NzmI https://youtu.be/EPYy_g8NzmI
- markandrewj 5y ago
  *electric
speeder 5y ago
Be happy with your Ford. I had a Peugeot that required proprietary cable and software, and that software works only on Windows XP...
shortstuffsushi 5y ago
Don't see it in your post history, or any related profiles; care to mention or link to what you did, here or offthread? (I'm @shortstuffsushi everywhere) I also own a 2020 Ford and would be potentially interested in this.
- nick__m 5y ago
  Forscan (Ford and Mazda) is a software you could try, assuming you have a cable like that one[1]. The free version is be able to read, reset and run diagnostic but it cannot change the car configuration. The full version can change the car configuration but you can't buy licenses for because it come from Russia. There are some boutique companies, and even some oems [2] that provide software to retune your engine but I have no experience, nor desire, to do that kind of tinkering. 1-https://www.amazon.com/Scanner-FORScan-Adapter-ELMconfig-Diagnosis/dp/B083FML519 https://www.amazon.com/Scanner-FORScan-Adapter-ELMconfig-Dia... 2- https://www.mazdaserviceinfo.com/pcm-reflashing https://www.mazdaserviceinfo.com/pcm-reflashing
- jaywalk 5y ago
  I went through this company: https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/computer-and-tuning https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/computer-and-tuning I don't have the expertise to set up all the parameters on my own, but I'm very happy with the tune they provided.
  - BenjiWiebe 5y ago
    They've reverse engineered everything for you already, and provide firmware that accepts adjustment, and something to install that firmware. You can't do that with a generic OBD-II compliant tool and Ford's OEM firmware.
queuebert 5y ago
This is very common in the BMW world as well.
Reubachi 5y ago
If I say "You can't shoot someone", and then you shoot them.....sure! Anything is possible. In your example, have you since taken it to ford and told them you did this? Better not, as you've broken your warranty and they will see this and report that to you.They will put this information on record, and you now have a nightmare selling the vehicle. Again, and your example is a good one, ICU vehicles and manufacturers are at least addressable/self repairable. This is not the case so much for electric.

seanp2k2 5y ago

Also, the info that is exposed to end-users is awful and seems to be getting worse. We have a 2021 Volvo and it has TPMS, but the TPMS info screen on the large infotainment display shows /4 orange dots, one on each tire/ when the pressure in ANY is too low. It doesn’t tell you the actual pressures, or what they should be, just that it needs maintenance. My other 2017 Chevy tells me the ~real-time (takes a few seconds to change) pressures of all 4 tires. I know that the Volvo has this info, and a screen more than capable of displaying that info, yet someone chose instead to treat the user like an absolutely helpless idiot and basically suggest that they should stop using the vehicle immediately and have it flatbed trailered to the nearest dealership /because a single tire is a few PSI low/. I understand having idiot lights for idiots, and sure, do that on the dash, but please give end users any way to get some actual info. It’s the “door ajar” when the vehicle knows which door but doesn’t disambiguate to the user. It’s bad design, or malicious design to boost dealer profits.

lern_too_spel 5y ago
The Volvo is using an iTPMS system, which does not have absolute PSI measurements.
- zwily 5y ago
  My Audi does this too. And despite the salesman’s insistence that it’s actually better this way, it still bugs me.
kube-system 5y ago
To elaborate a bit on what someone else said -- some cars with TPMS systems do not have pressure sensors at all. It is possible to add TMPS to a vehicle entirely via software by analyzing other data from existing sensors. For example, it might be looking at sensor data that looks like: Steering angle: 0 degrees LF wheel speed: 305 rpm RF wheel speed: 293 rpm LR wheel speed: 302 rpm RR wheel speed: 285 rpm In this case, it may be possible for the car to determine that you probably have some incorrect pressures, but it may not know exactly which tire(s) is/are wrong. Nor does it know what the pressures are.

tiahura 5y ago

Just an FYI, on Amazon you can buy Chinese scanners that decode proprietary OBD2 and do other handy things like the reprogramming for replacement key fobs. Mine was $150 and came with Honda support. Other manufacturers can be downloaded for $50.

flutas 5y ago

> and 100 fold with Tesla Uhhh, except I have an OBD-II adapter in mine[0] and combined with an Android app[1] can see in detail basically everything about the car, including individual battery voltages inside the cell pack? [0]: https://www.scanmytesla.com/adapters https://www.scanmytesla.com/adapters [1]: https://www.scanmytesla.com/ https://www.scanmytesla.com/

Reubachi 5y ago
Ok, Great! You can now monitor a piece of data you have no means whatsoever to adress outside of the tesla ecosystem. which is thrice fold not an issue with "open-er source" ICU vehicles because: 1. no concern for this battery (obvious I guess) 2. you can bring it to the mechanic down the street, 3. You can do it yourself with parts you source with a warranty that the dealer does not care about. If your battery "starts to go", do you think you can go anywhere besides Tesla, and that they will not first charge you for a diagnostic using their license ODB2 software? Your diagnostic using a non licensed odb2 scanner and....android app will not allow them to bypass the diagnostic you will certainly have to have done by them, because of their insurance/warranty process requiring licensed equipment. ICU manufacturers DO pull the same shit, but you can at least bring the car to a cheaper mechanic who is hopefully footing the bill of the tooling/license. Say you ARE Able to perform work outside of Tesla, better not tell Tesla that, or your vehicle will be blacklisted.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

>You're intentionally leaving out the fact that a greater and greater number of manufacturer/OEMs are making necessary tools to properly debug proprietary and locked behind contracts. isn't that the way every industry intersecting with IT behaves, and isn't there always someone else fighting to open it up, so https://github.com/iDoka/awesome-canbus https://github.com/iDoka/awesome-canbus A curated list of awesome tools, hardware and resources for CAN bus

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]