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It is a genocidal war because Ukrainians are being killed and displaced for refusal to accept a Russian identity. Putin is pretty clear in denying to Ukrainians

by trhway 5y ago

It is a genocidal war because Ukrainians are being killed and displaced for refusal to accept a Russian identity. Putin is pretty clear in denying to Ukrainians their identity and statehood. His plans for Ukrainians are like that of Hitler who wanted that land too for Slavic people - displacement and killing of resisting ones, conversion to "Russian" identity for the rest on those lands with limited statehood under control of the Great Russia.

theandrewbailey 5y ago
A genocidal war is when someone kills an entire group of people over immutable characteristics. One country refusing to accept another country's power doesn't make a genocidal war. Your definition of genocide suggests that every war ever fought was genocidal, which is clearly not the case.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  It's one thing to take over a territory from a controlling entity like a government or a king. It's another thing to take over a territory and claim that you're doing so because the ruling regime are Nazis, when they're not; and you're saving the people because they're Russians, when they're not. It's even quite another thing to embrace the ones who welcome your rewriting of history while murdering those who reject it. That's what elevates this to a genocide rather than just a territory grab.
_-david-_ 5y ago
Russians are also dying. That means Ukraine is committing genocide on the Russians, right?
- trhway 5y ago
  https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml Now show an official Ukraine policy documents declaring targeting Russians based on Russian national or ethnic identity. A pattern of such activity without official policy documents would do to. Though for example the fact that mostly Russians are killed in the invading tanks doesn't qualify because it is just happens that the tanks are manned mostly by Russians and those Russians are killed not for being Russians, they are killed for driving invading tanks. For the current genocide conducted by Russia in Ukraine Putin's editorial and speeches, including the speech declaring the war, declaring erasure of Ukrainian national and ethnic identity are such official policy documents.
8note 5y ago
Is it a Russian identity, or being a russian vassal that's required? Denial of sovereignty isn't genocide
- trhway 5y ago
  >Denial of sovereignty isn't genocide The denial of sovereignty here is just a tool to achieve the goal Putin openly declared in particular in his editorial and speeches - erasing of Ukrainians national identity. In order to achieve that goal he kills and displaces carriers of that national and ethnic identity, ie. Ukrainians, and that is genocide. This is what Russia exactly does in Ukraine: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml " In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; "

by trhway 5y ago

theandrewbailey 5y ago

A genocidal war is when someone kills an entire group of people over immutable characteristics. One country refusing to accept another country's power doesn't make a genocidal war. Your definition of genocide suggests that every war ever fought was genocidal, which is clearly not the case.

ModernMech 5y ago
It's one thing to take over a territory from a controlling entity like a government or a king. It's another thing to take over a territory and claim that you're doing so because the ruling regime are Nazis, when they're not; and you're saving the people because they're Russians, when they're not. It's even quite another thing to embrace the ones who welcome your rewriting of history while murdering those who reject it. That's what elevates this to a genocide rather than just a territory grab.

_-david-_ 5y ago

Russians are also dying. That means Ukraine is committing genocide on the Russians, right?

trhway 5y ago
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml Now show an official Ukraine policy documents declaring targeting Russians based on Russian national or ethnic identity. A pattern of such activity without official policy documents would do to. Though for example the fact that mostly Russians are killed in the invading tanks doesn't qualify because it is just happens that the tanks are manned mostly by Russians and those Russians are killed not for being Russians, they are killed for driving invading tanks. For the current genocide conducted by Russia in Ukraine Putin's editorial and speeches, including the speech declaring the war, declaring erasure of Ukrainian national and ethnic identity are such official policy documents.

8note 5y ago

Is it a Russian identity, or being a russian vassal that's required? Denial of sovereignty isn't genocide

trhway 5y ago
>Denial of sovereignty isn't genocide The denial of sovereignty here is just a tool to achieve the goal Putin openly declared in particular in his editorial and speeches - erasing of Ukrainians national identity. In order to achieve that goal he kills and displaces carriers of that national and ethnic identity, ie. Ukrainians, and that is genocide. This is what Russia exactly does in Ukraine: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml " In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; "