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Anybody else having reached the point of language indifference/boredom? Everything I everywhere now see is just the same: Gluecode, library calls, unnecessary

Anybody else having reached the point of language indifference/boredom? Everything I everywhere now see is just the same: Gluecode, library calls, unnecessary verbosity, Blackbox inside Blackbox etc. And this project slaps it again into my face, with every example it’s literally always the same - only that language uses a colon, the other a semicolon, the other catches exceptions with ? etc. but in a way it’s all just the same. How to overcome this? I find, only pointfree notation has some beauty to it that makes reading code sweet again.

skulk 5y ago
This project is a curiosity. It may help someone trying to build a quick one-off script (though, then I have the question of why curl wasn't good enough). In any real-world use-case, you can't just plop in some isolated code to make a HTTP request. I haven't looked yet, but I assume this website generates code that blocks the current thread or it spins up its own threadpool; neither of these things are acceptable for any production application. In my experience, the main concepts behind application architecture remains the same regardless of what language you're using. Concepts like asynchronous execution and how it affects composability and resource management transcend syntax.
perth 5y ago
When you master the hammer you can use it to build stuff, it’s not a competition to know every toy language in existence.
- protoman3000 5y ago
  > It’s not a competition to know every toy language in existence. I would argue against this and claim that it appears to be a competition since “X written in {Rust,Go,SexyLang,…}” became the prevalent bullshit bingo.
  - djbusby 5y ago
    Sure, however if you play a different game you can get good wage on $UNCOOL_LANG (is that Perl now or what?) Do you want to win bingo (chance) or get steady-pay? Prevalent is just what you're paying attention too - there are 359 other degrees to enjoy.
  - Swizec 5y ago
    Juggling chainsaws is more impressive than hammers. But it’s all just juggling The question you have to ask yourself is: Are you juggling for the sake of juggling or to make a good show for the crowd? If your goal is the outcome, maybe don’t go into juggling bags of poo even though it’s more challenging than chainsaws because they keep changing shape.
  - jrockway 5y ago
    I think people want the ability to modify software they use (that's the whole point of open source). It's easier to modify software in a language you know than one you don't. That's why these things exist. Going back to the hammer example, imagine that you've spent your whole life using screws. You are probably going to buy furniture assembled with screws instead of with nails, because you know how easy it is to twist the screw out and put your modification in instead. A clear path exists in your mind, whereas with nail-based furniture, who knows?
revicon 5y ago
Why is language indifference bad? You're correct, most language differences really come down to one language using a colon, the other a semicolon, etc. Find a problem you feel passionate about solving and then use your skills to go solve it for mankind. You've learned how to be a mason, now go build something beautiful.
capableweb 5y ago
> How to overcome this? You start with branching out to actually different programming languages. If you already know PHP, don't go and learn Java or C#, you basically already know those from PHP, you're only missing knowledge of the public API (what methods should be called when, naming conventions) and so on. Instead, seek languages that when you see them the first time you say "wow, I don't understand anything" and sit down and try to learn one of those. For me, Clojure was always one of those languages that kindled the "what the hell is that" feeling in me, but after reading a lot of praise for the language, I started learning it anyways. Now I work on Clojure(Script) code full-time, and programming is finally a fun thing to do again. I won't try to learn Common Lisp or anything like that next, as I know that if I spent the time, it'd be easy, it's just Clojure but with different functions to call, different conventions, but mostly the same. So the next language I'm targeting is Rust. A C-like language, but new concepts around the borrow-checker and lifetimes, something I've been exposed to before, but not this literally.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
DonHopkins 5y ago
>I find, only pointfree notation has some beauty to it that makes reading code sweet again. I haven't written FORTH code in ages, but I still enjoy reading well written FORTH code for its pure literary pleasure! https://github.com/MitchBradley/openfirmware/blob/master/forth/kernel/kernel.fth#L771 https://github.com/MitchBradley/openfirmware/blob/master/for...
brimble 5y ago
I've found programming language differences less and less interesting the longer I do this. They all do the same thing. Everything's pointers and stacks, usually not that far beneath the surface. Some are more or less ergonomic, but nothing (that sees any widespread use, anyway) is really very different. Just another set of quirks and (probably bad) tools to learn. Library availability & quality matters more to me than what the language looks like.
SnooSux 5y ago
Instead of exploring different languages learn about different fields and domains. The language may be basically the same (outside of some more esoteric ones), but Data Science is a very different experience from Web Dev which is different from Embedded Systems. Get out of your comfort zone a little.
superdisk 5y ago
I prescribe Prolog, Lisp, Forth, x86 assembly, and Smalltalk. Each one is remarkably different and not just a coat of paint on top of C (which is 80% of popular languages). You'll have so much fun.
- account-5 5y ago
  What about APL, or J? Would these be something different enough.
conrs 5y ago
Work on solving problems using declarative languages and functional languages. So, either Prolog, or Lisp. Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs is a good jumping off point for Lisp while also providing fundamental insights. Prolog.. honestly, just google "basic" array problems and try and do them in prolog. It takes a mental shift, which is hard at first, and you feel silly not being able to count to 10. But learning how to think in this paradigm is useful - e.g. SQL is declarative.
makeworld 5y ago
Maybe try programming for Uxn. https://100r.co/site/uxn.html https://100r.co/site/uxn.html
dls2016 5y ago
chop wood, carry water... or maybe the Turing version: read a symbol, move the head
yen223 5y ago
Seek excitement not from the language, but from what you can build with the language

skulk 5y ago

This project is a curiosity. It may help someone trying to build a quick one-off script (though, then I have the question of why curl wasn't good enough). In any real-world use-case, you can't just plop in some isolated code to make a HTTP request. I haven't looked yet, but I assume this website generates code that blocks the current thread or it spins up its own threadpool; neither of these things are acceptable for any production application. In my experience, the main concepts behind application architecture remains the same regardless of what language you're using. Concepts like asynchronous execution and how it affects composability and resource management transcend syntax.

perth 5y ago

When you master the hammer you can use it to build stuff, it’s not a competition to know every toy language in existence.

protoman3000 5y ago
> It’s not a competition to know every toy language in existence. I would argue against this and claim that it appears to be a competition since “X written in {Rust,Go,SexyLang,…}” became the prevalent bullshit bingo.
- djbusby 5y ago
  Sure, however if you play a different game you can get good wage on $UNCOOL_LANG (is that Perl now or what?) Do you want to win bingo (chance) or get steady-pay? Prevalent is just what you're paying attention too - there are 359 other degrees to enjoy.
- Swizec 5y ago
  Juggling chainsaws is more impressive than hammers. But it’s all just juggling The question you have to ask yourself is: Are you juggling for the sake of juggling or to make a good show for the crowd? If your goal is the outcome, maybe don’t go into juggling bags of poo even though it’s more challenging than chainsaws because they keep changing shape.
- jrockway 5y ago
  I think people want the ability to modify software they use (that's the whole point of open source). It's easier to modify software in a language you know than one you don't. That's why these things exist. Going back to the hammer example, imagine that you've spent your whole life using screws. You are probably going to buy furniture assembled with screws instead of with nails, because you know how easy it is to twist the screw out and put your modification in instead. A clear path exists in your mind, whereas with nail-based furniture, who knows?

revicon 5y ago

Why is language indifference bad? You're correct, most language differences really come down to one language using a colon, the other a semicolon, etc. Find a problem you feel passionate about solving and then use your skills to go solve it for mankind. You've learned how to be a mason, now go build something beautiful.

capableweb 5y ago

> How to overcome this? You start with branching out to actually different programming languages. If you already know PHP, don't go and learn Java or C#, you basically already know those from PHP, you're only missing knowledge of the public API (what methods should be called when, naming conventions) and so on. Instead, seek languages that when you see them the first time you say "wow, I don't understand anything" and sit down and try to learn one of those. For me, Clojure was always one of those languages that kindled the "what the hell is that" feeling in me, but after reading a lot of praise for the language, I started learning it anyways. Now I work on Clojure(Script) code full-time, and programming is finally a fun thing to do again. I won't try to learn Common Lisp or anything like that next, as I know that if I spent the time, it'd be easy, it's just Clojure but with different functions to call, different conventions, but mostly the same. So the next language I'm targeting is Rust. A C-like language, but new concepts around the borrow-checker and lifetimes, something I've been exposed to before, but not this literally.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

DonHopkins 5y ago

>I find, only pointfree notation has some beauty to it that makes reading code sweet again. I haven't written FORTH code in ages, but I still enjoy reading well written FORTH code for its pure literary pleasure! https://github.com/MitchBradley/openfirmware/blob/master/forth/kernel/kernel.fth#L771 https://github.com/MitchBradley/openfirmware/blob/master/for...

brimble 5y ago

I've found programming language differences less and less interesting the longer I do this. They all do the same thing. Everything's pointers and stacks, usually not that far beneath the surface. Some are more or less ergonomic, but nothing (that sees any widespread use, anyway) is really very different. Just another set of quirks and (probably bad) tools to learn. Library availability & quality matters more to me than what the language looks like.

SnooSux 5y ago

Instead of exploring different languages learn about different fields and domains. The language may be basically the same (outside of some more esoteric ones), but Data Science is a very different experience from Web Dev which is different from Embedded Systems. Get out of your comfort zone a little.

superdisk 5y ago

I prescribe Prolog, Lisp, Forth, x86 assembly, and Smalltalk. Each one is remarkably different and not just a coat of paint on top of C (which is 80% of popular languages). You'll have so much fun.

account-5 5y ago
What about APL, or J? Would these be something different enough.

conrs 5y ago

Work on solving problems using declarative languages and functional languages. So, either Prolog, or Lisp. Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs is a good jumping off point for Lisp while also providing fundamental insights. Prolog.. honestly, just google "basic" array problems and try and do them in prolog. It takes a mental shift, which is hard at first, and you feel silly not being able to count to 10. But learning how to think in this paradigm is useful - e.g. SQL is declarative.

makeworld 5y ago

Maybe try programming for Uxn. https://100r.co/site/uxn.html https://100r.co/site/uxn.html

dls2016 5y ago

chop wood, carry water... or maybe the Turing version: read a symbol, move the head

yen223 5y ago

Seek excitement not from the language, but from what you can build with the language