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Serious question coming from a place of relative ignorance- are Jewish people today more persecuted in western democracies like the US than in Israel? There are

Serious question coming from a place of relative ignorance- are Jewish people today more persecuted in western democracies like the US than in Israel? There are certainly attacks, but I don't know how that compares to the sustained state of quasi-war that Israel exists in. > Laws like these lower the probability of Jews becoming a minority in Israel. Do you think the probability of them becoming a minority is zero? And the probability of them being persecuted provided they become a minority is zero? Unless you think both probabilities are very low you must understand their concerns. I think I understand their concerns but worry that this creates a new persecuted minority by race, ensuring Jewish security by persecuting native Arabic peoples. This is maybe an overly American lense, but "never again" to me means that we should have stringent minority protections above just "never again" for the Jewish people .

eli_gottlieb 5y ago
> Serious question coming from a place of relative ignorance- are Jewish people today more persecuted in western democracies like the US than in Israel? There are certainly attacks, but I don't know how that compares to the sustained state of quasi-war that Israel exists in. Just by the numbers, Jews are better off in Israel, because baseline violent crime rates are actually lower in Israel. This is made starker by the next largest Jewish population being in the United States, which has an unusually high rate of baseline violent crime. It's actually a question of "do you want fewer but more horrifying terrorist attacks, or more and more normalized mass shootings?"
- rory 5y ago
  Fewer than 1 in 400 homicide victims in the US is killed in a mass shooting. Conflating the danger from baseline violent crime rate with that from mass shootings is silly. And of course, the violence in the USA is extremely unevenly distributed, so the baseline number tells you very little about the actual danger to Jewish Americans. I don't know the answer to the GP's question one way or another, but this line of reasoning doesn't answer it.

eli_gottlieb 5y ago

> Serious question coming from a place of relative ignorance- are Jewish people today more persecuted in western democracies like the US than in Israel? There are certainly attacks, but I don't know how that compares to the sustained state of quasi-war that Israel exists in. Just by the numbers, Jews are better off in Israel, because baseline violent crime rates are actually lower in Israel. This is made starker by the next largest Jewish population being in the United States, which has an unusually high rate of baseline violent crime. It's actually a question of "do you want fewer but more horrifying terrorist attacks, or more and more normalized mass shootings?"

rory 5y ago
Fewer than 1 in 400 homicide victims in the US is killed in a mass shooting. Conflating the danger from baseline violent crime rate with that from mass shootings is silly. And of course, the violence in the USA is extremely unevenly distributed, so the baseline number tells you very little about the actual danger to Jewish Americans. I don't know the answer to the GP's question one way or another, but this line of reasoning doesn't answer it.