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Slightly more annoying is someone who you do not know giving you a "Hey, how are you doing?". Try, "Hey Bob, this is Alice, I work on the QA team in Dublin. I'

Slightly more annoying is someone who you do not know giving you a "Hey, how are you doing?". Try, "Hey Bob, this is Alice, I work on the QA team in Dublin. I'm looking at an issue I think you might be able to help me with http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234 http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234. Would you have a minute to discuss this?"

jsjohnst 5y ago
> how are you doing? I’m so annoyed by the abuse of this phrase that I’ve taken to giving entirely inappropriate responses (based on context) when folks ask.
- IceMetalPunk 5y ago
- dspillett 5y ago
  Similar. “How it is hanging” usually gets a response of the sort “<thoughtful look, shuffles hips> To the left, a little lower than usual. <pause for troubled look> Well, you did ask.”.
- lwhi 5y ago
  It's called an opener.
  - jsjohnst 5y ago
    And what you just did is called “stating the obvious”. How was either this reply or yours actually helpful to the conversation?
    - lwhi 5y ago
      Because a lot of this conversation is avoiding the obvious, and becoming an echo chamber of obtuse opinion.
ravenstine 5y ago
I loathe phatic expressions in general, but yeah, over chat with someone you don't know is about as bad as it gets. It would be great if people actually meant the question, but they almost never do.
- IceMetalPunk 5y ago
  "How are you doing?", 90% of the time it's said, is social coding for either "I exist, acknowledge me before I continue" or "I see you exist, may I continue?" It's literally the human equivalent of a file existence check.
  - ravenstine 5y ago
    I totally get that, and as someone who grew up in LA I'm accustomed to a frequency of pretense. To me personally, "how are you" and "what's up" are complicated questions no matter what mood I'm in. Where I live, if you respond with anything other than "good" or "great", they look at you funny even if they know you. Heaven forbid saying you're just "okay", because then you might need to see a therapist. /s Besides, not every culture uses phatic expressions all the time and somehow their civilizations don't collapse. It's a matter of taste, and I'm not a fan.
    - scruple 5y ago
      > To me personally, "how are you" and "what's up" are complicated questions no matter what mood I'm in. Where I live, if you respond with anything other than "good" or "great", they look at you funny even if they know you. Heaven forbid saying you're just "okay", because then you might need to see a therapist. /s Reminds me of the "How To Talk Minnesotan" video. [0] I'm a Midwestern transplant to SoCal and getting hit with "How's it going?" or the equivalent still gives me anxiety, 15 years later... [0]: https://youtu.be/oiSzwoJr4-0?t=478 https://youtu.be/oiSzwoJr4-0?t=478
- mythrwy 5y ago
  One good way to head that off is to go ahead and answer the question. "Well, my Lumbago is acting up and I have this new cat who won't use the litter box. His name is Sammy because he looks kind of like Sammy Davis Jr. I'll post some pictures later. Of Sammy, not the litter box failure. Also I have this nephew I think is on pot. My sister is really worried but she's always worrying about stuff. It's probably because Mom seemed to like me better but that's hardly my fault." After a round or two that people stop and think if they _really_ need to ask you anything at all, much less implicitly get in your personal business with a impertinent "How are you doing?".
sneak 5y ago
That also isn't a good opener. Discuss what specifically about it? It's still waiting for a contentless "yes"/"sure". Just begin the discussion. I think a lot of people do this because they are bad/slow at typing and don't want to bother leveling up.
- IceMetalPunk 5y ago
  Agreed, but it at least gives me a starting point to check the ticket and get some context to estimate whether I can help or not.
- VBprogrammer 5y ago
  How would you do it differently? For someone I worked with closely, sure, I'd just paste the ticket ID and start talking to them about it. When I have to talk to someone whom I don't have an existing relationship with and maybe only have a tenuous recommendation to talk to them about an issue I think it's a reasonable place to start. They might actually not know about the thing I'm asking about and have a better idea of who to speak to.
  - JimDabell 5y ago
    > How would you do it differently? Imagine somebody responded to that message with “Sure, what’s up?” Now imagine what you would write in response to that. Then just send that along with the original message. So instead of: > Hey Bob, this is Alice, I work on the QA team in Dublin. I'm looking at an issue I think you might be able to help me with http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234 http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234. Would you have a minute to discuss this? …you might write something like this: > Hey Bob, this is Alice, I work on the QA team in Dublin. I'm looking at an issue I think you might be able to help me with http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234 http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234. I’m following the steps, but I can’t reproduce the problem. I see it’s a couple of weeks old, is it possible this is fixed already? Can you still reproduce this? In fact, normally a question like this is a sign something is wrong elsewhere anyway. Why isn’t the discussion about the issue taking place in the issue tracker? If anybody else has to pick this up, they will be missing all the info from the discussion that took place elsewhere.
nanidin 5y ago
> Slightly more annoying is someone who you do not know giving you a "Hey, how are you doing?". This is a cultural thing - some cultures value small talk as a requisite step in person to person interactions, including in business. Americans do have a reputation of wanting to get straight to business and of dispensing with small talk though. Speaking from experience in France, one can call the same business and make the same request with small talk (polite) and without small talk (impolite) and get vastly different outcomes. If one jumps straight to "I would like to schedule a tour of the winery today", one is more likely to hit a no than if one went in with "Hello, how are you? I was wondering if it would be possible to schedule a tour of the winery today?"
- IceMetalPunk 5y ago
  "Hello, how are you? I was wondering if it would be possible to schedule a tour of the winery today?" This is perfectly fine and valid, and in fact is usually the format of my messages to others. It's entirely different from: "Hello, how are you?" ... ... ... "I'm fine; what's up?" "Oh, I was wondering if it would be possible to schedule a tour of the winery today?"

jsjohnst 5y ago

> how are you doing? I’m so annoyed by the abuse of this phrase that I’ve taken to giving entirely inappropriate responses (based on context) when folks ask.

IceMetalPunk 5y ago
dspillett 5y ago
Similar. “How it is hanging” usually gets a response of the sort “<thoughtful look, shuffles hips> To the left, a little lower than usual. <pause for troubled look> Well, you did ask.”.
lwhi 5y ago
It's called an opener.
- jsjohnst 5y ago
  And what you just did is called “stating the obvious”. How was either this reply or yours actually helpful to the conversation?
  - lwhi 5y ago
    Because a lot of this conversation is avoiding the obvious, and becoming an echo chamber of obtuse opinion.

ravenstine 5y ago

I loathe phatic expressions in general, but yeah, over chat with someone you don't know is about as bad as it gets. It would be great if people actually meant the question, but they almost never do.

IceMetalPunk 5y ago
"How are you doing?", 90% of the time it's said, is social coding for either "I exist, acknowledge me before I continue" or "I see you exist, may I continue?" It's literally the human equivalent of a file existence check.
- ravenstine 5y ago
  I totally get that, and as someone who grew up in LA I'm accustomed to a frequency of pretense. To me personally, "how are you" and "what's up" are complicated questions no matter what mood I'm in. Where I live, if you respond with anything other than "good" or "great", they look at you funny even if they know you. Heaven forbid saying you're just "okay", because then you might need to see a therapist. /s Besides, not every culture uses phatic expressions all the time and somehow their civilizations don't collapse. It's a matter of taste, and I'm not a fan.
  - scruple 5y ago
    > To me personally, "how are you" and "what's up" are complicated questions no matter what mood I'm in. Where I live, if you respond with anything other than "good" or "great", they look at you funny even if they know you. Heaven forbid saying you're just "okay", because then you might need to see a therapist. /s Reminds me of the "How To Talk Minnesotan" video. [0] I'm a Midwestern transplant to SoCal and getting hit with "How's it going?" or the equivalent still gives me anxiety, 15 years later... [0]: https://youtu.be/oiSzwoJr4-0?t=478 https://youtu.be/oiSzwoJr4-0?t=478
mythrwy 5y ago
One good way to head that off is to go ahead and answer the question. "Well, my Lumbago is acting up and I have this new cat who won't use the litter box. His name is Sammy because he looks kind of like Sammy Davis Jr. I'll post some pictures later. Of Sammy, not the litter box failure. Also I have this nephew I think is on pot. My sister is really worried but she's always worrying about stuff. It's probably because Mom seemed to like me better but that's hardly my fault." After a round or two that people stop and think if they _really_ need to ask you anything at all, much less implicitly get in your personal business with a impertinent "How are you doing?".

sneak 5y ago

That also isn't a good opener. Discuss what specifically about it? It's still waiting for a contentless "yes"/"sure". Just begin the discussion. I think a lot of people do this because they are bad/slow at typing and don't want to bother leveling up.

IceMetalPunk 5y ago
Agreed, but it at least gives me a starting point to check the ticket and get some context to estimate whether I can help or not.
VBprogrammer 5y ago
How would you do it differently? For someone I worked with closely, sure, I'd just paste the ticket ID and start talking to them about it. When I have to talk to someone whom I don't have an existing relationship with and maybe only have a tenuous recommendation to talk to them about an issue I think it's a reasonable place to start. They might actually not know about the thing I'm asking about and have a better idea of who to speak to.
- JimDabell 5y ago
  > How would you do it differently? Imagine somebody responded to that message with “Sure, what’s up?” Now imagine what you would write in response to that. Then just send that along with the original message. So instead of: > Hey Bob, this is Alice, I work on the QA team in Dublin. I'm looking at an issue I think you might be able to help me with http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234 http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234. Would you have a minute to discuss this? …you might write something like this: > Hey Bob, this is Alice, I work on the QA team in Dublin. I'm looking at an issue I think you might be able to help me with http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234 http://jira.yourcorp.org/browse/ORDERS-1234. I’m following the steps, but I can’t reproduce the problem. I see it’s a couple of weeks old, is it possible this is fixed already? Can you still reproduce this? In fact, normally a question like this is a sign something is wrong elsewhere anyway. Why isn’t the discussion about the issue taking place in the issue tracker? If anybody else has to pick this up, they will be missing all the info from the discussion that took place elsewhere.

nanidin 5y ago

> Slightly more annoying is someone who you do not know giving you a "Hey, how are you doing?". This is a cultural thing - some cultures value small talk as a requisite step in person to person interactions, including in business. Americans do have a reputation of wanting to get straight to business and of dispensing with small talk though. Speaking from experience in France, one can call the same business and make the same request with small talk (polite) and without small talk (impolite) and get vastly different outcomes. If one jumps straight to "I would like to schedule a tour of the winery today", one is more likely to hit a no than if one went in with "Hello, how are you? I was wondering if it would be possible to schedule a tour of the winery today?"

IceMetalPunk 5y ago
"Hello, how are you? I was wondering if it would be possible to schedule a tour of the winery today?" This is perfectly fine and valid, and in fact is usually the format of my messages to others. It's entirely different from: "Hello, how are you?" ... ... ... "I'm fine; what's up?" "Oh, I was wondering if it would be possible to schedule a tour of the winery today?"