8 ms·

Pretty sure Russia took responsibility for the hospital but my understanding is Russia claims their intelligence was 1.) it was no longer a functioning hospital

Pretty sure Russia took responsibility for the hospital but my understanding is Russia claims their intelligence was 1.) it was no longer a functioning hospital and 2.) used as a base of operations for the fascist Azov Battalion... not that it didn't happen.

scruple 5y ago
They can claim whatever they want. They're known liars. What are they claiming as retroactive justification for shooting fleeing civilians?
schleck8 5y ago
They claimed they did not destroy the hospital at first and then shifted to calling it an Azov base afaik. Just like Lavrov yesterday claimed Russia hasn't actually invaded Ukraine.
- xdennis 5y ago
  He said that Russia doesn't plan on invading any countries and that Russia hasn't even invaded Ukraine... which is very concerning for us in Romania.
  - CoastalCoder 5y ago
    I'm very sorry for the situation you're in. Could you elaborate on your fears for Romania? Putin's attempt to annex Ukraine has been very damaging to Russia's economy and (I assume) its conventional military strength. Putin's actions also placed the rest of Europe on high alert. So even if Putin manages to secure control of eastern Ukraine, I assume it would take many years before Russia is strong enough to attempt another expansion. And I expect nearby countries would use that time very productively.
    - lazide 5y ago
      Typically if the economy is collapsing during a military action like this, the gov’t has only two options: 1) stop (which in this situation would mean admitting that it was a bad idea/defeat, and almost certainly lead to Putin’s death and the collapse of the gov’t) Or 2) double down and switch to a military economy, using outside sanctions as proof that they were right and everyone else WAS out to get the country. Guess which one they seem to be doing? And if they successfully switch to us vs them’ing the entire world, they can’t let peace happen or folks will start thinking. They need a constant enemy.
- 8note 5y ago
  Sounds similar to claims about the Ukranian medical research labs. First claims that there are no weapons labs, then claims that the things attacked aren't weapons labs. It's possible for details to be lost in translation, and for people to make mistakes
  - schleck8 5y ago
    Wow, Russia has messed up really badly then. I guess their navigation wasn't working since they ended up on all accessible sites of Ukraine, including next to Kyiv. While announcing an operation in Donbass
watwut 5y ago
Which is ... not taking responsibility. And simultaneously it is ... claiming that bombing of maternity ward did not happened.
at-fates-hands 5y ago
Interesting observation. . . When Crimea was annexed, there were many articles on Azov Battalion and the implications that it was the best thing (capable fighters who will defend the country) and the worst thing (they're Fascists) and how that would play out if Russia invaded. Since the invasion, I haven't seen any articles on the topic and the US media have gone suddenly silent on their involvement. I find it kind of odd considering there is such a preoccupation with Nazi's in this country, they would just ignore this part of the narrative.
- vogre 5y ago
  Latvia (also NATO country, and in the Meta list) still has this https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-latvia-hundreds-march-in-honor-of-ss-veterans/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-latvia-hundreds-march-in-ho...
- Bouncingsoul1 5y ago
  "Since the invasion, I haven't seen any articles on the topic and the US media have gone suddenly silent on their involvement." that's just not true pick your favourite search engine and you see articles on this topic from every major outlet.I checked for this Nyt, WP (US) , der spiegel(ger), guardian(uk). You see articles coming up the last 2 weeks, another spike was 2017 and before 2014. I guess if ran an analysis for I'd see spikes mentioning Azov, whenever the Ukranian topic was in the media
  - shihab 5y ago
    You're right, and yet I disagree with your main point. For every article about Azov or other far-right nationalists, there are like 100 saying Russia is spreading misinformation about Nazism in Ukraine (which can of course be true too). The ratio is not appropriate in my very subjective opinion. Another point about you mentioning The Guardian- I've always found before, specially so during this conflict, British media presents comparatively balanced narrative than American ones. Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" is being staged right in front of our eyes.
    - 5y ago
throwaway_4ever 5y ago
Then that would be the 100th thing they’re calling “Azov Battalion.” I’m half convinced they see the entire country as “Azov Battalion” and whatever they shell will be given the same excuse.

scruple 5y ago

They can claim whatever they want. They're known liars. What are they claiming as retroactive justification for shooting fleeing civilians?

schleck8 5y ago

They claimed they did not destroy the hospital at first and then shifted to calling it an Azov base afaik. Just like Lavrov yesterday claimed Russia hasn't actually invaded Ukraine.

xdennis 5y ago
He said that Russia doesn't plan on invading any countries and that Russia hasn't even invaded Ukraine... which is very concerning for us in Romania.
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  I'm very sorry for the situation you're in. Could you elaborate on your fears for Romania? Putin's attempt to annex Ukraine has been very damaging to Russia's economy and (I assume) its conventional military strength. Putin's actions also placed the rest of Europe on high alert. So even if Putin manages to secure control of eastern Ukraine, I assume it would take many years before Russia is strong enough to attempt another expansion. And I expect nearby countries would use that time very productively.
  - lazide 5y ago
    Typically if the economy is collapsing during a military action like this, the gov’t has only two options: 1) stop (which in this situation would mean admitting that it was a bad idea/defeat, and almost certainly lead to Putin’s death and the collapse of the gov’t) Or 2) double down and switch to a military economy, using outside sanctions as proof that they were right and everyone else WAS out to get the country. Guess which one they seem to be doing? And if they successfully switch to us vs them’ing the entire world, they can’t let peace happen or folks will start thinking. They need a constant enemy.
8note 5y ago
Sounds similar to claims about the Ukranian medical research labs. First claims that there are no weapons labs, then claims that the things attacked aren't weapons labs. It's possible for details to be lost in translation, and for people to make mistakes
- schleck8 5y ago
  Wow, Russia has messed up really badly then. I guess their navigation wasn't working since they ended up on all accessible sites of Ukraine, including next to Kyiv. While announcing an operation in Donbass

watwut 5y ago

Which is ... not taking responsibility. And simultaneously it is ... claiming that bombing of maternity ward did not happened.

at-fates-hands 5y ago

Interesting observation. . . When Crimea was annexed, there were many articles on Azov Battalion and the implications that it was the best thing (capable fighters who will defend the country) and the worst thing (they're Fascists) and how that would play out if Russia invaded. Since the invasion, I haven't seen any articles on the topic and the US media have gone suddenly silent on their involvement. I find it kind of odd considering there is such a preoccupation with Nazi's in this country, they would just ignore this part of the narrative.

vogre 5y ago
Latvia (also NATO country, and in the Meta list) still has this https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-latvia-hundreds-march-in-honor-of-ss-veterans/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-latvia-hundreds-march-in-ho...
Bouncingsoul1 5y ago
"Since the invasion, I haven't seen any articles on the topic and the US media have gone suddenly silent on their involvement." that's just not true pick your favourite search engine and you see articles on this topic from every major outlet.I checked for this Nyt, WP (US) , der spiegel(ger), guardian(uk). You see articles coming up the last 2 weeks, another spike was 2017 and before 2014. I guess if ran an analysis for I'd see spikes mentioning Azov, whenever the Ukranian topic was in the media
- shihab 5y ago
  You're right, and yet I disagree with your main point. For every article about Azov or other far-right nationalists, there are like 100 saying Russia is spreading misinformation about Nazism in Ukraine (which can of course be true too). The ratio is not appropriate in my very subjective opinion. Another point about you mentioning The Guardian- I've always found before, specially so during this conflict, British media presents comparatively balanced narrative than American ones. Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" is being staged right in front of our eyes.
  - 5y ago

throwaway_4ever 5y ago

Then that would be the 100th thing they’re calling “Azov Battalion.” I’m half convinced they see the entire country as “Azov Battalion” and whatever they shell will be given the same excuse.