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These atms are particularly useful for Ukrainians who have managed to escape with some crypto. Since it can be hard to set up a bank account and exchange accoun

These atms are particularly useful for Ukrainians who have managed to escape with some crypto. Since it can be hard to set up a bank account and exchange account in a new country

BaseballPhysics 5y ago
Ukrainian banks are still part of SWIFT. They can just use the normal banking system. Maybe if you'd said "Russians" I'd understand, since their banking system is partially cut off, but in that case we'd be talking about money laundering intended to bypass international sanctions.
- angio 5y ago
  Some Ukrainian banks (and other services) have been under constant ddos attacks from russian hackers (even before the invasion).
  - BaseballPhysics 5y ago
    SWIFT runs on a separate network that's not affected by internet-based denial of service attacks. I don't see how such a thing would prevent a Ukrainian from accessing their funds via a UK bank.
    - rosndo 5y ago
      As far as I understand SWIFT very much runs over a VPN that works on the public internet. https://www.swift.com/our-solutions/interfaces-and-integration/alliance-connect https://www.swift.com/our-solutions/interfaces-and-integrati... There’s no separate comms infrastructure for SWIFT, it’s very much vulnerable to internet-based DDoS.
      - BaseballPhysics 5y ago
        Ah, yup, SWIFTnet does indeed run over the public internet (apparently that changed way back in 2005, so my information is quite dated!) TIL! The question then becomes: how is the network designed to handle DDoS attacks? For example, you'd need to identify the network segment or host IP address where the SWIFTnet connections are terminated, among many other things, and I have no idea how you'd do that and if the system builds in resiliency for things like DDoSes. Of course, the simpler answer is just to blow up the ISPs and cut power to datacenters. Regardless, if the Ukrainian banking system connection to SWIFT was indeed disrupted, you wouldn't be able to transfer funds to a crypto exchange in the first place, which rather undermines its use as a way to get funds out of the country...
EveYoung 5y ago
In the UK, opening a bank account is a very simple process even for refrugees. They only need a passport and proof of address (e.g., tenancy agreement). If you use one of the challenger banks, you can do everything from your phone and receive your debit card in a couple of days.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  What do homeless people do?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Amonst many people that get screwed
  - avianlyric 5y ago
    It’s a very difficult problem. But a mix of using a homeless centres as their home address and also new services like ProxyAddress[1]. It’s an issue that regulators like the FCA are keenly aware of, and are pushing banks hard to find a solution to. [1] https://www.proxyaddress.co.uk/ https://www.proxyaddress.co.uk/
  - rosndo 5y ago
    It’s very common for people to just fake utility bills for this purpose, the banks do not verify them.
  - edent 5y ago
    There are bank accounts in the UK which are suitable for homeless people. For example https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/money-worries/no-fixed-address/ https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/money-worries/no-fixed-address/
- steerablesafe 5y ago
  From experience, opening a bank account in the UK takes a while. And for that time you need cash on hand, or a working foreign bank account/bank card.
Traster 5y ago
Is there any evidence at all that Ukranians are actually doing this, or is this another one of these justifications for BTC that are basically "Theoretically it could do x" phrased as "It's helping these people do x" when, in fact, no one actually uses it to do x. If I were a Ukranian refugee I would be getting every penny I can out into cash, preferably euros. Not sticking all my money into some dodgy internet currency from a country that generally no longer has reliable internet access.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  And that would be stolen from you, as you have no practical way to hide it physically. Unless you are physically able to carry and defend a backpack full of euro notes, that ain’t going with you. Also, there is no cash available on the ground. With cryptocurrency, one can transfer and hide one’s life’s savings behind 12-24 words that derive a set of private keys. That is it. Burn it into your long term memory, and you will be able to recover your funds anywhere in the world.
  - Traster 5y ago
    I don't think you're thinking this through carefully. Firstly, cash does not take as much space as you think, $1000 is 20 bank notes. It's not a back pack full. Secondly, if we're thinking about fleeing Ukraine you need to have transfered that money before the crisis. You can transfer a decent amount of money into dollars and be confident it's going to stay stable, you're going to have that amount of cash to leave with. If you transferred into BTC a month ago, you've lost roughly 10% of the money you transfereed just because the volatility. So you're putting this escape money at significant risk (imagine that the war didn't happen, and you've just burned a big chunk of your savings through BTC volatility). Going back to the first point - if you're literally talking about a backpack full, presumably you're talking about sticking your entire life savings into BTC? And just what? Hope it goes up? Finally, your scheme sounds a little... risky. So Russia invades Ukraine and starts shelling your cities, you've got to travel cross country out of Ukraine, into a Polish refugee centre, possibly facing life threatening conditions. And at the end of it - better have remembered that 24 word pass phrase! Because if you forgot it, your entire escape money is gone forever!

These atms are particularly useful for Ukrainians who have managed to escape with some crypto. Since it can be hard to set up a bank account and exchange account in a new country

BaseballPhysics 5y ago

Ukrainian banks are still part of SWIFT. They can just use the normal banking system. Maybe if you'd said "Russians" I'd understand, since their banking system is partially cut off, but in that case we'd be talking about money laundering intended to bypass international sanctions.

angio 5y ago
Some Ukrainian banks (and other services) have been under constant ddos attacks from russian hackers (even before the invasion).
- BaseballPhysics 5y ago
  SWIFT runs on a separate network that's not affected by internet-based denial of service attacks. I don't see how such a thing would prevent a Ukrainian from accessing their funds via a UK bank.
  - rosndo 5y ago
    As far as I understand SWIFT very much runs over a VPN that works on the public internet. https://www.swift.com/our-solutions/interfaces-and-integration/alliance-connect https://www.swift.com/our-solutions/interfaces-and-integrati... There’s no separate comms infrastructure for SWIFT, it’s very much vulnerable to internet-based DDoS.
    - BaseballPhysics 5y ago
      Ah, yup, SWIFTnet does indeed run over the public internet (apparently that changed way back in 2005, so my information is quite dated!) TIL! The question then becomes: how is the network designed to handle DDoS attacks? For example, you'd need to identify the network segment or host IP address where the SWIFTnet connections are terminated, among many other things, and I have no idea how you'd do that and if the system builds in resiliency for things like DDoSes. Of course, the simpler answer is just to blow up the ISPs and cut power to datacenters. Regardless, if the Ukrainian banking system connection to SWIFT was indeed disrupted, you wouldn't be able to transfer funds to a crypto exchange in the first place, which rather undermines its use as a way to get funds out of the country...

EveYoung 5y ago

In the UK, opening a bank account is a very simple process even for refrugees. They only need a passport and proof of address (e.g., tenancy agreement). If you use one of the challenger banks, you can do everything from your phone and receive your debit card in a couple of days.

mschuster91 5y ago
What do homeless people do?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Amonst many people that get screwed
- avianlyric 5y ago
  It’s a very difficult problem. But a mix of using a homeless centres as their home address and also new services like ProxyAddress[1]. It’s an issue that regulators like the FCA are keenly aware of, and are pushing banks hard to find a solution to. [1] https://www.proxyaddress.co.uk/ https://www.proxyaddress.co.uk/
- rosndo 5y ago
  It’s very common for people to just fake utility bills for this purpose, the banks do not verify them.
- edent 5y ago
  There are bank accounts in the UK which are suitable for homeless people. For example https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/money-worries/no-fixed-address/ https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/money-worries/no-fixed-address/
steerablesafe 5y ago
From experience, opening a bank account in the UK takes a while. And for that time you need cash on hand, or a working foreign bank account/bank card.

Traster 5y ago

Is there any evidence at all that Ukranians are actually doing this, or is this another one of these justifications for BTC that are basically "Theoretically it could do x" phrased as "It's helping these people do x" when, in fact, no one actually uses it to do x. If I were a Ukranian refugee I would be getting every penny I can out into cash, preferably euros. Not sticking all my money into some dodgy internet currency from a country that generally no longer has reliable internet access.

randomhodler84 5y ago
And that would be stolen from you, as you have no practical way to hide it physically. Unless you are physically able to carry and defend a backpack full of euro notes, that ain’t going with you. Also, there is no cash available on the ground. With cryptocurrency, one can transfer and hide one’s life’s savings behind 12-24 words that derive a set of private keys. That is it. Burn it into your long term memory, and you will be able to recover your funds anywhere in the world.
- Traster 5y ago
  I don't think you're thinking this through carefully. Firstly, cash does not take as much space as you think, $1000 is 20 bank notes. It's not a back pack full. Secondly, if we're thinking about fleeing Ukraine you need to have transfered that money before the crisis. You can transfer a decent amount of money into dollars and be confident it's going to stay stable, you're going to have that amount of cash to leave with. If you transferred into BTC a month ago, you've lost roughly 10% of the money you transfereed just because the volatility. So you're putting this escape money at significant risk (imagine that the war didn't happen, and you've just burned a big chunk of your savings through BTC volatility). Going back to the first point - if you're literally talking about a backpack full, presumably you're talking about sticking your entire life savings into BTC? And just what? Hope it goes up? Finally, your scheme sounds a little... risky. So Russia invades Ukraine and starts shelling your cities, you've got to travel cross country out of Ukraine, into a Polish refugee centre, possibly facing life threatening conditions. And at the end of it - better have remembered that 24 word pass phrase! Because if you forgot it, your entire escape money is gone forever!