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The headline for this article is... a bit coloured. Crypto, in general, is just another example of tech charging ahead while in many cases clearly violating ex

The headline for this article is... a bit coloured. Crypto, in general, is just another example of tech charging ahead while in many cases clearly violating existing laws and regulations. In this particular case, the article specifically notes that: > To operate in the UK, crypto ATMs should be registered with the FCA and comply with UK Money Laundering Regulations (MLR). According to the FCA, none of the cryptoasset firms that have registered with it have been granted permission to operate ATMs so those that are operating are illegal and, the FCA said, customers should not be using them. A more accurate headline would be: "Crypto ATM operators violate laws, forced to shut down". These ATMs are no different than the shenanigans that Uber got up to: deliberately skirting or outright violating not just the intent but letter of the law in order to "disrupt". I'm waiting to hear an announcement that these ATMs will start using geolocation techniques to shut themselves down when law enforcement is nearby...

skyde 5y ago
what is the definition of an aTM? Are those machines that take gift card and give you money in exchange also considered ATM. According to the government crypto is not a currency. So it’s can compared to collecting baseball card or stamps.
csdvrx 5y ago
> These ATMs are no different than the shenanigans that Uber got up to: deliberately skirting or outright violating not just the intent but letter of the law in order to "disrupt". Then, given Uber success in making legislation evolve, crypto ATMs will receive at worst a slap on the hand, then be fully legalized in a few years, while the existing ATMs will become a thing of the past for a new generation of customers. (I have no idea how it's in continental Europe or the UK, but that how it's here in the US)
- barrucadu 5y ago
  Why would existing ATMs become a thing of the past? The economy isn't going to switch from cash to crypto in a few years time.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    > Why would existing ATMs become a thing of the past? I just followed up on the Uber analogy: the only people I know to still be using regular taxis are old people. When they retire, I think Uber/Lyft will dominate the market. > The economy isn't going to switch from cash to crypto in a few years time. Likewise, the economy is not going to fully deprecate taxis: in a few years time, there will still be taxis. Then maybe just in some high density cities like NYC or London. But I think the business model of a taxi you can't book from a smartphone is going to end up very dead
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    ATMs as we understand them might not exist at that point. They'll become the financial equivalent of the payphone. Banks will be 99% web-based and money will be exchanged in the form of digital dollars.
muttled 5y ago
>These ATMs are no different than the shenanigans that Uber got up to: deliberately skirting or outright violating not just the intent but letter of the law in order to "disrupt". To play devil's advocate: they might not exist as a company today had they complied with the law. There's a critical mass problem with trying to do something new that toes the legality line and had they not had the user-base they might not have been able to gain the funding that then allowed them to lobby to change the laws. They lucked out, though, and were popular enough that nobody was able to successfully shut them down for operating what essentially came down to an unlicensed (and maybe uninsured at the time?) cab company.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  > they might not exist as a company today had they complied with the law. If we accept that it's okay to get rich by breaking the law, where is the line that makes it not okay to deal drugs or sell illegal financial products in the hopes they might be legalised later?
  - onedognight 5y ago
    > where is the line that makes it not okay to deal drugs or sell illegal financial products in the hopes they might be legalised later? Nowhere. It’s a gamble. Vietnam War draft dodgers didn’t know they would be pardoned, but did it anyway. Normal people hated taxi companies and their dirty cars and “credit card reader doesn’t work” bullshit. Uber made the right call that they would get support. If you like currently illegal drugs, you might think that crypto is the path forward, but money launderers are scamming the system and these laws to fight them are well supported and push against the crypto tide. It’s a gamble.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    How do you think marijuana got legalized, Prohibition got repealed, or Lawrence vs Texas got government out of the bedroom?
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago

skyde 5y ago

what is the definition of an aTM? Are those machines that take gift card and give you money in exchange also considered ATM. According to the government crypto is not a currency. So it’s can compared to collecting baseball card or stamps.

csdvrx 5y ago

> These ATMs are no different than the shenanigans that Uber got up to: deliberately skirting or outright violating not just the intent but letter of the law in order to "disrupt". Then, given Uber success in making legislation evolve, crypto ATMs will receive at worst a slap on the hand, then be fully legalized in a few years, while the existing ATMs will become a thing of the past for a new generation of customers. (I have no idea how it's in continental Europe or the UK, but that how it's here in the US)

barrucadu 5y ago
Why would existing ATMs become a thing of the past? The economy isn't going to switch from cash to crypto in a few years time.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > Why would existing ATMs become a thing of the past? I just followed up on the Uber analogy: the only people I know to still be using regular taxis are old people. When they retire, I think Uber/Lyft will dominate the market. > The economy isn't going to switch from cash to crypto in a few years time. Likewise, the economy is not going to fully deprecate taxis: in a few years time, there will still be taxis. Then maybe just in some high density cities like NYC or London. But I think the business model of a taxi you can't book from a smartphone is going to end up very dead
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  ATMs as we understand them might not exist at that point. They'll become the financial equivalent of the payphone. Banks will be 99% web-based and money will be exchanged in the form of digital dollars.

muttled 5y ago

>These ATMs are no different than the shenanigans that Uber got up to: deliberately skirting or outright violating not just the intent but letter of the law in order to "disrupt". To play devil's advocate: they might not exist as a company today had they complied with the law. There's a critical mass problem with trying to do something new that toes the legality line and had they not had the user-base they might not have been able to gain the funding that then allowed them to lobby to change the laws. They lucked out, though, and were popular enough that nobody was able to successfully shut them down for operating what essentially came down to an unlicensed (and maybe uninsured at the time?) cab company.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
> they might not exist as a company today had they complied with the law. If we accept that it's okay to get rich by breaking the law, where is the line that makes it not okay to deal drugs or sell illegal financial products in the hopes they might be legalised later?
- onedognight 5y ago
  > where is the line that makes it not okay to deal drugs or sell illegal financial products in the hopes they might be legalised later? Nowhere. It’s a gamble. Vietnam War draft dodgers didn’t know they would be pardoned, but did it anyway. Normal people hated taxi companies and their dirty cars and “credit card reader doesn’t work” bullshit. Uber made the right call that they would get support. If you like currently illegal drugs, you might think that crypto is the path forward, but money launderers are scamming the system and these laws to fight them are well supported and push against the crypto tide. It’s a gamble.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  How do you think marijuana got legalized, Prohibition got repealed, or Lawrence vs Texas got government out of the bedroom?
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago