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This is how the Middle East works by the way. Interreligious marriages are a very big deal and banned in every single Middle Eastern country. The good countrie
by jonathan-adly 5y ago
This is how the Middle East works by the way. Interreligious marriages are a very big deal and banned in every single Middle Eastern country.
The good countries will refuse to issue a marriage license to you, the bad countries will send the police to watch as a mob lynches you.
If you see Israel as some kind of psuedo-western state, then yea, you should be shocked. But as a Middle Eastern country, this is just another Thursday. Personally, I don't see Israel any different than I see Turkey, Egypt, or Jordan.(Allies that get lots of money from the US with questionable behavior)
edit: I think is wrong by the way, so not justifying. This is just how things work in the Middle East - where nations do terrible things in the name of preserving their "religious" identity.
edit x2: Sources:
1. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2016/06/20/what-egypt-under-sissi-is-really-like-for-coptic-christians/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2016/06/20/what-egypt-...
2. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/02/persecution-driving-christians-out-of-middle-east-report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/02/persecution-dr...
3. Any of the State Dept religious freedoms reports here: https://www.state.gov/reports/2020-report-on-international-religious-freedom/ https://www.state.gov/reports/2020-report-on-international-r...
- A7med 5y agonot true , trying to justifying the Israel action by saying false information
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- usaar333 5y agoThis isn't really about interreligious marriages; it mostly affects Muslim Arab Israeli Citizens marrying Muslim Palestinians.
- simiones 5y agoThis is not about inter-religious marriages - this is about Arab or Christian Israeli citizens marrying other Arab or Christian Palestinians (or Lebanese and and a few other countries). This is as if the USA denied the right to extend your citizenship to a Mexican spouse - in some ways worse than the inter-religious thing.
- pavelrub 5y ago> this is about Arab or Christian Israeli citizens This is incorrect. There is no distinction in the law between Arab Israelis and Jewish Israelis. The law applies equally to Israeli Jews who wish to marry a resident of the WB/Gaza, or one of the other countries mentioned in the law.
- borispavlovic 5y agoIt would be interesting to see the ration between the Arab Israelis wishing to marry an Arab from WB/Gaza and Jewish Israelis wishing to marry a Jewish from WB/Gaza. Laws make sense in a context of a society.
- pavelrub 5y agoThere is a fundamental difference between a law that prohibits a specific ethnicity from doing X, and a law that prohibits everyone from doing X, but a specific ethnicity/minority is more affected by it than others. The former is pretty much never legitimate, while the latter is often unavoidable, and I imagine exists to some extent in any country with minorities.
- simiones 5y agoThis law very explicitly discriminates against non-Jewish Palestinians (and Lebanese and a few others). It also disproportionately affects Israeli Arabs and others who are much more likely than Israeli Jews to have spouses who would be discriminated against by this law.
- zarzavat 5y agoThe law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.
- coeneedell 5y agoAre you trying to say that there's something inherent to the Jewish population that they're less likely to marry a non-Jewish person than a Muslim is to marry a non-Muslim?
- School-Cotton 5y agoThe article doesn’t mention religion anywhere. There are plenty of Christian and Muslim citizens of Israel, and plenty of Christian and Muslim Palestinians, so the marriages don’t have to be inter-religious. Inter-religious marriages are already impossible in Israel, and have been AFAIK forever (but you can fly to e.g. Cyprus to have one performed and it will be recognized in Israel).
- JasonFruit 5y ago> "The State of Israel is Jewish and so it will remain," said Simcha Rothman of the far-right Religious Zionism party, a member of the opposition who brought the law forward with Interior Minister Ayelet Shaked. "Today, God willing, Israel's defensive shield will be significantly strengthened," he told the Knesset hours before the vote.
- imglorp 5y agoI'm baffled how the people who survived the Holocaust, among numerous other persecutions, are now so intolerant of another persecuted people.
- btilly 5y agoThere is something about being surrounded by people who actually want you dead that makes you somewhat rigid about instituting measures intended to keep you alive. I'm not arguing rights and wrongs, here. Merely human psychology.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoAlmost all humans (and many other species) get tribal once allocation of limited resources comes into play.
- sempron64 5y agoIsraeli right-wingers don’t see Palestinians as a persecuted minority in a vacuum. They see them as members of the Arab ethnicity of the surrounding states which are much larger in size and population. In the late 1960s Syria and Egypt actually formed into one state and tried to annihilate and absorb Israel in a pincer movement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Republic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Republic
- kuduebrahim 5y agoI would assume most of these aren’t interreligious, but beetween Israeli Arab Muslims, and Palestinian Muslims. As far as being banned in every Middle Eastern country… not true. I know a few Bahraini females married to Brits. Interracial and interreligous. In Lebanon, and Jordan, this happens between Christians and Muslims as well. Which countries would lynch you?
- this-way-cool 5y agoThis isn't even remotely true. Anyone can marry inter-religiously in Turkey. Jewish, Christian or Muslim doesn't matter. Please get your facts right.
- jonathan-adly 5y agoYes. Turkey that genocided its Christian population a couple of generations ago.
- ComputerGuru 5y agoYes, that Turkey is more fair than Israel.
- oliwarner 5y agoThe world was very different a couple of generations ago, let alone the hundred years you're talking about. You'll be shocked to hear what happened 20 years later.
- VictorPath 5y agoThere is no law banning inter-religious marriage in Lebanon either. What different churches and such allow in terms of inter-marriage is left up to them, just like in, say, the US. But no laws prevent religious intermarriage.
- erkanerol 5y ago+1
- kayotetem 5y agoWhat an insidious way to justify the action!
- frogstomp19 5y agoFWIW, this law is not banning marriage, rather it's preventing Palestinians from becoming automatically naturalized citizens through marrying an Israeli citizen.
- 1337shadow 5y agoSee how much people this article misguided? Incredible!
- Ennis 5y agoThat's the point. There is no path to becoming "naturalized", a legal resident or much more-so a citizen in your own country - whether you see that as Palestine or Israel. This is just one more mechanism to humiliate a population of millions.
- e-neko 5y agoOf course nobody cares that an Israeli Jew marrying a Lebanese, or a Jordanian, or an Egyptian, let alone a Saudi citizen, can't get Lebanese or Jordanian or Egyptian or Saudi citizenship. But Israel must give citizenship to everyone... right?
- helge9210 5y agoMain problem here that if Israeli citizen will decide to marry a Lebanese, or a Jordanian, or an Egyptian or even Saudi citizen, they won't be able to live in Israel. Outrage of non-Israelis about is law is merely academical. Outrage of (some of) Israelis is practical: the state is putting a choice in front of a citizen -- be able to marry a person you want or be able to live in Israel.
- e-neko 5y agoWhy is it not a problem that they won't be able to live in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt or Saudi Arabia? This outrage looks like a double standard to me.
- miracle2k 5y ago> This is how the Middle East works by the way. Interreligious marriages are a very big deal and banned in every single Middle Eastern country. Just to put some extra emphasis on quite how wrong this is: they are likely banned in almost no Middle Eastern country. Source: Married a woman from and in a Middle Eastern country under heavy sanctions just a few years ago. Ironically, the law in question is not about the legality of the marriage, but about the rights of getting citizenship afterwards, and indeed, I would not be able to become a citizen of this country by way of my marriage, so in that sense, it is similar.
- jonathan-adly 5y agoIt is absolutely right. Want to look up what the legal stance in Egypt of an Egyptian Christian Male married a Muslim Woman? (even if she isn't Egyptian)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gokhan 5y agoNot true for Turkey.
- aaomidi 5y agoThis is certainly not the case with Iran either. Honestly it seems like you're just making shit up.
- msoad 5y agoUnless Iran is not in the Middle East, you're 100% wrong about Iran. Lots of people I know married (officially in Iran) to their Iranian spouse from other religions.
- pyuser583 5y agoRight, but a large number of Palestinians are Christian. The law doesn’t seem to apply to a Jewish Israeli who marries an American Christian, only a Jewish Israeli who marries a Palestinian.
- Qiu_Zhanxuan 5y agoThis is simply not true. While Inter-religious marriages are often frowned upon, no law prevent any person from a middle east country to marry another person on the basis of different religious background. Please give your sources. Parent is spreading misinformation.
- tlogan 5y agoI’m not sure but this NOT how Middle East work. At least not in Lebanon and Egypt. Anyway this is just wrong - even is some other countries do that.
- jonathan-adly 5y agoEgypt has a lynching every 3 month or so because of an inter-religious relationship[0]. Lebanon had a religious civil war a generation ago, and would probably end up in another one soon if things continue as they are. 0. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2016/06/20/what-egypt-under-sissi-is-really-like-for-coptic-christians/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2016/06/20/what-egypt-...
- buzzwords 5y agoIs this true? I've seen Christian (Arminian) and Muslim couples in Iran.
- fit2rule 5y ago[dead]
- redditwhat 5y agoPlease explain how the #23 ranked country in the democracy index(higher than countries such as Italy, Spain and the US) and the #24 highest GDP per capita(higher than UK, France and South Korea) is not more of a western country then authoritarian regimes like Jordan, Turkey or Egypt? Israel has one of the largest pride parades in the world (300k+ people) and equal rights for LGBTQ people. Please look up what happens to the LGBTQ community in the countries you mentioned. Israel is a western country with western values and allies, we just have a very hard and not so easy to solve as people on HN think issue with the Palestinians which I hope would be solved some day in our lifetime
- jonathan-adly 5y agoWhat does the ultra-Orthodox Jews think about those parades? Just by the demographics alone, those guys will be in charge very soon. (or Israel will cease to be democratic). So yes, Israel is not there yet, but well on its way. (and I have no problems with that, as long as they don't try to impose their religious values on me).
- redditwhat 5y agoAs an atheist-jew living in Israel, I will be the first to denounce ultra-orthodox Jews living in Israel and their chosen lifestyle, and I truly hope they won't ever become a majority here. But like you said, until then- It's a western country with western values through and through
- AniseAbyss 5y agoNo it isn't. In my country religion has no impact whatsoever in who you can marry or your citizenship. Israel is not "just like us". It is a country founded on a religion. It treats that religion as superior and grants it more status. To be harsh Israel is more like KSA and Iran.
- LorenPechtel 5y agoActually, it's not quite that. Israel doesn't issue marriage licenses in the first place--they leave marriage up to the various religions. A Jew can't marry a Muslim in Israel because neither of their faiths will permit it.