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How about we reframe this to “no country has high crime rates as large as the US”. Because that’s actually the problem. Not a bunch of people being in prison. W

How about we reframe this to “no country has high crime rates as large as the US”. Because that’s actually the problem. Not a bunch of people being in prison. What would you prefer we do with people that want to commit crime? Not lock them up? Because that’s what is causing all big cities to turn into catch and release garbage pits.

DocTomoe 5y ago
Actually, crime rate in the US is not even in the top 10 - they are in position 58. Sweden has more crime than the US. [1] Most people who are engaged in criminal behaviour do not "want to commit crime". They are put into an environment that makes crime seem worth it. So, how to civilise the US: 1. Raise emphasis and funding on schools and education. 2. Have a mandatory year of service (may be conscription/may be US peace corps) to build a sense of belonging and society - for everyone. Mix people randomly. 3. Legalise most (all?) substances - and make purchasing them safe and easy. Defund crime cartels, also eliminate a lot of associated crime. Maybe extend that to other areas which traditionally support organised crime (looking at you, prostitution) 4. Crack down on glorifying violent behaviour in media. Think movies, games, but also gangster rap here. Underprivileged early-teen kid keeps listening about some guy who wears gold chains, caps some other folks and gets all the girls? No wonder he's going to be interested in signing up for the next gang. 5. Enact some meaningful social reforms to lower the Gini coefficient. This starts with an universal healthcare system, but does not end with housing. 6. Reestablish a system of psychiatric clinics. Many people who are in prison should actually be in a psychiatry. 7. Lower the prison population - prisons are universities for crime. If you are in prison in the US, you'll eventually become part of a prison gang, guess what: that's for life - when you and your friend are out, you're not going to build a cabin in Alaska, you're going to do crime. Less people in prison means less networking and less follow-up crime. 8. Make plea bargains illegal. They are extortion tactics that make people admit to stuff they may not even have done. If an attorney is certain he can nail you down, he won't use them anyways. 9. Stop electing state attorneys, sheriffs or judges - make them public officials with a standard paycheque and a minimum education level in law. 10. Law Enforcement Officers should have a three-year apprentice period where they learn about deescalation, proper firearm techniques, the law and criminology. 11. Change the prison system to focus on reintegration into society instead of punishment. 12. Start meaningful programs to lower gun ownership, especially in inner city environments. 13. Take powers away from town councils and move it to the state or federal level - this includes tax collection and spending. Doing so, you will avoid NIMBYist decisions that defunds the places of undesirables, making their areas even less desirable. 14. Avoid gerrymandering by using a fairer, ideally mathematical method to assign districts. 15. career politicians are now banned from having sources of income outside their activity as a politician (some leeway can be made for family-run businesses they have owned prior to getting elected). No politician will earn more than the median of the constituents they represent. Punishment for overstepping this or corruption will be harsh. The US is obviously following the wrong path. To get back to normal standards, it should be obvious they need something different, not more of the same. [1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rat...
- aahortwwy 5y ago
  > Overall crime rate is calculated by dividing the total number of reported crimes of any kind by the total population, then multiplying the result by 100,000 (because crime rate is typically reported as X number of crimes per 100,000 people). There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
  - DocTomoe 5y ago
    Not sure what you intend to say with it. How else would you create a comparable metric for the occurrence of crime by country?
    - aahortwwy 5y ago
      > Not sure what you intend to say with it. Unreported crime is extremely common in the USA. I haven't lived in Sweden, but I've lived somewhere lower on that ranking. Day to day life here feels much, much safer than in the USA (where I lived for years). In this country the idea of not reporting a violent crime is unthinkable. Not so in the USA. If anything, it's the default. > How else would you create a comparable metric for the occurrence of crime by country? It may not be possible, but I'd probably try to look at how much crime actually happens rather than what finds its way into police records.
      - DocTomoe 5y ago
        And how would you know how much crime "actually happens" if you don't have an objectively quantifiable measurement? Your argument seems to boil down to "these numbers feel too low, I feel less safe in the US, so the numbers must be cooked, let's assume the situation is a lot worse." Also, if we take the idea of "general feeling of safety" into account ... do you really think you'd feel safer in Colombia, or Somalia, than the US? Many of the countries above the States in crime per capita have law enforcement systems that are even more corrupt, and even less likely to give good statistics - if the numbers of the US are cooked in that overview, chances are so are everyone elses.

DocTomoe 5y ago

Actually, crime rate in the US is not even in the top 10 - they are in position 58. Sweden has more crime than the US. [1] Most people who are engaged in criminal behaviour do not "want to commit crime". They are put into an environment that makes crime seem worth it. So, how to civilise the US: 1. Raise emphasis and funding on schools and education. 2. Have a mandatory year of service (may be conscription/may be US peace corps) to build a sense of belonging and society - for everyone. Mix people randomly. 3. Legalise most (all?) substances - and make purchasing them safe and easy. Defund crime cartels, also eliminate a lot of associated crime. Maybe extend that to other areas which traditionally support organised crime (looking at you, prostitution) 4. Crack down on glorifying violent behaviour in media. Think movies, games, but also gangster rap here. Underprivileged early-teen kid keeps listening about some guy who wears gold chains, caps some other folks and gets all the girls? No wonder he's going to be interested in signing up for the next gang. 5. Enact some meaningful social reforms to lower the Gini coefficient. This starts with an universal healthcare system, but does not end with housing. 6. Reestablish a system of psychiatric clinics. Many people who are in prison should actually be in a psychiatry. 7. Lower the prison population - prisons are universities for crime. If you are in prison in the US, you'll eventually become part of a prison gang, guess what: that's for life - when you and your friend are out, you're not going to build a cabin in Alaska, you're going to do crime. Less people in prison means less networking and less follow-up crime. 8. Make plea bargains illegal. They are extortion tactics that make people admit to stuff they may not even have done. If an attorney is certain he can nail you down, he won't use them anyways. 9. Stop electing state attorneys, sheriffs or judges - make them public officials with a standard paycheque and a minimum education level in law. 10. Law Enforcement Officers should have a three-year apprentice period where they learn about deescalation, proper firearm techniques, the law and criminology. 11. Change the prison system to focus on reintegration into society instead of punishment. 12. Start meaningful programs to lower gun ownership, especially in inner city environments. 13. Take powers away from town councils and move it to the state or federal level - this includes tax collection and spending. Doing so, you will avoid NIMBYist decisions that defunds the places of undesirables, making their areas even less desirable. 14. Avoid gerrymandering by using a fairer, ideally mathematical method to assign districts. 15. career politicians are now banned from having sources of income outside their activity as a politician (some leeway can be made for family-run businesses they have owned prior to getting elected). No politician will earn more than the median of the constituents they represent. Punishment for overstepping this or corruption will be harsh. The US is obviously following the wrong path. To get back to normal standards, it should be obvious they need something different, not more of the same. [1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rat...

aahortwwy 5y ago
> Overall crime rate is calculated by dividing the total number of reported crimes of any kind by the total population, then multiplying the result by 100,000 (because crime rate is typically reported as X number of crimes per 100,000 people). There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  Not sure what you intend to say with it. How else would you create a comparable metric for the occurrence of crime by country?
  - aahortwwy 5y ago
    > Not sure what you intend to say with it. Unreported crime is extremely common in the USA. I haven't lived in Sweden, but I've lived somewhere lower on that ranking. Day to day life here feels much, much safer than in the USA (where I lived for years). In this country the idea of not reporting a violent crime is unthinkable. Not so in the USA. If anything, it's the default. > How else would you create a comparable metric for the occurrence of crime by country? It may not be possible, but I'd probably try to look at how much crime actually happens rather than what finds its way into police records.
    - DocTomoe 5y ago
      And how would you know how much crime "actually happens" if you don't have an objectively quantifiable measurement? Your argument seems to boil down to "these numbers feel too low, I feel less safe in the US, so the numbers must be cooked, let's assume the situation is a lot worse." Also, if we take the idea of "general feeling of safety" into account ... do you really think you'd feel safer in Colombia, or Somalia, than the US? Many of the countries above the States in crime per capita have law enforcement systems that are even more corrupt, and even less likely to give good statistics - if the numbers of the US are cooked in that overview, chances are so are everyone elses.