4 ms·

I'm going to say something crazy. How about we just stop electing people who are going to use power against their own citizens? If you think that's impossible,

I'm going to say something crazy. How about we just stop electing people who are going to use power against their own citizens? If you think that's impossible, then how about we change the system such that it is. That seems much more constructive than erecting barriers for ourselves because we can't control the beast we've constructed.

octoberfranklin 5y ago
> How about we just stop electing people who are going to use power against their own citizens? You have too much faith in humanity. > If you think that's impossible, then how about we change the system such that it is. Because that's impossible too? It's like buttered butter. The system is made of humans.
5350-uiop-1130 5y ago
you really drank that democratic kool aid. unless you have more money or bigger guns you don't get to decide anything. furthermore the internet has show really why democracy doesn't work at scale. it's so easy to manipulate the unwashed masses. you think if fox made up a smear campaign on you, there wouldn't be hoards of people at your door with pitchforks the next day.
southerntofu 5y ago
> How about we just stop electing people who are going to use power against their own citizens? Well sure, but for that you've got quite a road. Elections were precisely designed to extract power from the citizens into the hands of the few. If you truly want freedom and equality then you need to build power from the bottom up and never let anyone "represent" an entire population... because noone ever can represent millions of people faithfully. I mean, you could take the 500 brightest and nicest people on Earth and put them in a parliament and you would still get widespread injustice and misery. We need to abolish the Nation States and empower people and communities to organize (anarchism).
- hi_im_miles 5y ago
  The state suggests that people cannot play nicely en masse without violent control, but doesn’t actually back this assertion up with anything. Maybe I’m a conspiratorial nutcase, but my relationship with the state consistently feels like interacting with the world’s biggest protection racket.
  - natmaka 5y ago
    Some authors clearly analyzed/described many facets of this: Leopold Kohr (the breakdown of nations), Mancur Olson, James C. Scott (Zomia), Jacques Ellul...
- Pmop 5y ago
  I too believe that the path in which we progress towards peace and prosperity involves dissolving the Nation State and creating mechanisms that empowers the peaceful, good faith people, and prevents the Nation State from coming back.
coldtea 5y ago
>How about we just stop electing people who are going to use power against their own citizens? If you think that's impossible, then how about we change the system such that it is. How would that go? Who would ask you or me how to run the system? And who we should alternatively elect, given that the elections system is a rigged game with a couple of mostly-agreeing between them horses alternating in power in most countries?
pjc50 5y ago
As the others have said, the electorate wants power used against fellow members of the electorate.
jjav 5y ago
> If you think that's impossible, then how about we change the system such that it is. Who is "we"? The people who can change the system are those in elected offices of power. Your suggestion means convincing them to change it so that most of them will not get reelected and will lose all power. That can never happen, human nature.
- thisiscorrect 5y ago
  > Your suggestion means convincing them to change it so that most of them will not get reelected and will lose all power. That can never happen, human nature. That can happen, and has happened throughout history. It tends to be a bloody ordeal though.
- l3kk0 5y ago
  There are other ways of changing a system than working within it or resorting to violence. A parallel society is such a way. https://youtu.be/wJr7awWGWAo https://youtu.be/wJr7awWGWAo
  - dennis_jeeves1 5y ago
    A long time back I had see the video. Not the best points in the video, a little like how to make a million bucks. The concept is sound but the execution is hard. Most independent thinkers cannot even conceive of a parallel society. For the few that do, the numbers are really tiny, to the point that bumping into each other is near impossible. Either that, or they are so off radar that it's impossible to find them.
dennis_jeeves1 5y ago
>How about we just stop electing people who are going to use power against their own citizens? If you think that's impossible, then how about we change the system such that it is. Neither of it is possible the average Joe/Jill buys into all the bs sprouted by the powers.

octoberfranklin 5y ago

> How about we just stop electing people who are going to use power against their own citizens? You have too much faith in humanity. > If you think that's impossible, then how about we change the system such that it is. Because that's impossible too? It's like buttered butter. The system is made of humans.

5350-uiop-1130 5y ago

you really drank that democratic kool aid. unless you have more money or bigger guns you don't get to decide anything. furthermore the internet has show really why democracy doesn't work at scale. it's so easy to manipulate the unwashed masses. you think if fox made up a smear campaign on you, there wouldn't be hoards of people at your door with pitchforks the next day.

southerntofu 5y ago

> How about we just stop electing people who are going to use power against their own citizens? Well sure, but for that you've got quite a road. Elections were precisely designed to extract power from the citizens into the hands of the few. If you truly want freedom and equality then you need to build power from the bottom up and never let anyone "represent" an entire population... because noone ever can represent millions of people faithfully. I mean, you could take the 500 brightest and nicest people on Earth and put them in a parliament and you would still get widespread injustice and misery. We need to abolish the Nation States and empower people and communities to organize (anarchism).

hi_im_miles 5y ago
The state suggests that people cannot play nicely en masse without violent control, but doesn’t actually back this assertion up with anything. Maybe I’m a conspiratorial nutcase, but my relationship with the state consistently feels like interacting with the world’s biggest protection racket.
- natmaka 5y ago
  Some authors clearly analyzed/described many facets of this: Leopold Kohr (the breakdown of nations), Mancur Olson, James C. Scott (Zomia), Jacques Ellul...
Pmop 5y ago
I too believe that the path in which we progress towards peace and prosperity involves dissolving the Nation State and creating mechanisms that empowers the peaceful, good faith people, and prevents the Nation State from coming back.

coldtea 5y ago

>How about we just stop electing people who are going to use power against their own citizens? If you think that's impossible, then how about we change the system such that it is. How would that go? Who would ask you or me how to run the system? And who we should alternatively elect, given that the elections system is a rigged game with a couple of mostly-agreeing between them horses alternating in power in most countries?

pjc50 5y ago

As the others have said, the electorate wants power used against fellow members of the electorate.

jjav 5y ago

> If you think that's impossible, then how about we change the system such that it is. Who is "we"? The people who can change the system are those in elected offices of power. Your suggestion means convincing them to change it so that most of them will not get reelected and will lose all power. That can never happen, human nature.

thisiscorrect 5y ago
> Your suggestion means convincing them to change it so that most of them will not get reelected and will lose all power. That can never happen, human nature. That can happen, and has happened throughout history. It tends to be a bloody ordeal though.
l3kk0 5y ago
There are other ways of changing a system than working within it or resorting to violence. A parallel society is such a way. https://youtu.be/wJr7awWGWAo https://youtu.be/wJr7awWGWAo
- dennis_jeeves1 5y ago
  A long time back I had see the video. Not the best points in the video, a little like how to make a million bucks. The concept is sound but the execution is hard. Most independent thinkers cannot even conceive of a parallel society. For the few that do, the numbers are really tiny, to the point that bumping into each other is near impossible. Either that, or they are so off radar that it's impossible to find them.

dennis_jeeves1 5y ago

>How about we just stop electing people who are going to use power against their own citizens? If you think that's impossible, then how about we change the system such that it is. Neither of it is possible the average Joe/Jill buys into all the bs sprouted by the powers.