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> use the built in mobile uplink to gather massive amounts of data about usage, e.g. how often the car is "pushed hard", or driven dangerously. Nobody knows exa

> use the built in mobile uplink to gather massive amounts of data about usage, e.g. how often the car is "pushed hard", or driven dangerously. Nobody knows exactly how they will use that, maybe to limit guarantees? - but if the cars is yours and yours only, this shouldn't matter, right? Why wouldn't it matter? About 10 years ago, a friend bought a brand new VW Polo and after 2000km ended up with warped brake discs. When he went to the VW dealer to have them replaced under warranty, the dealer refused, claiming that the warrant only covers stuff like engine and bodywork and not consumable parts like brake discs, and also that brake discs should not warp under normal usage, which is one of the conditions of the warranty to be valid, and since they are warped, the dealer claimed that the owner mush have been driving his car outside of the normal usage specs the car is rated for and under which the warranty applies. I guess that telemetry will help manufacturers validate or invalidate warranty claims.

cyberge99 5y ago
Who gets to see the telemetry?
- tapoxi 5y ago
  In Massachusetts, access to this telemetry by local repair shops is required by our new right-to-repair law. Some manufactures have made a fuss, but hopefully other states follow.
- oliwarner 5y ago
  Data about how I drive my car? Laughs in GDPR
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    GDPR might have some teeth if it was actually seriously enforced. That's yet to be the case.
    - oliwarner 5y ago
      https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ Sorry, is several million Euros in fines this year, a billion over its lifetime not toothy enough for you? They're going after big players, tiny companies, even individuals. From personal experience, getting access to data about me is usually fast, demanding they delete it appears to work, and my own complaints to the national regulatory body have resulted in me getting my own way. GDPR is great.
      - Nextgrid 5y ago
        > a billion over its lifetime not toothy enough for you > They're going after big players Don't you see the oxymoron in here? A billion is a non-event for a single one of the big players making their money on stalking, and you're saying that a billion over its lifetime (4 years) across all companies is toothy? Come on. > my own complaints to the national regulatory body have resulted in me getting my own way. I'm glad it works for you, and I guess you must live in a country where the regulator isn't completely useless. In my case, in the UK with the ICO, the best I managed to get out of them is a few letters which the company promptly ignored just like they ignored my own query, and this non-resolution still required significant admin work for me (just so they don't have an excuse to close your complaint on a technicality - despite being handed evidence of a GDPR breach).
  - stavros 5y ago
    I love that I might just be able to withdraw consent on my new car, instead of fishing around in the engine block to cut the antenna. Then again, I'm probably going to anyway, for good measure.
Arrath 5y ago
> I guess that telemetry will help manufacturers validate or invalidate warranty claims. I have a feeling this will be one of those one-sided advantages, the manufacturer will review the telemetry and only use the data if it assists them in denying a warranty claim.
HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
> warrant only covers stuff like engine and bodywork and not consumable parts like brake discs You could have stopped there. After this point, there's really no more to be said.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >After this point, there's really no more to be said. Really? Because if I buy a brand new car and end up with warped brake discs after just 2000km, and the dealer refuses to fix it under warranty, I will raise hell regardless of what technicality the dealer/manufacturer will uses to justify not fixing it.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
    You're certainly free to do so, but at that point you're really arguing about what should and should not be covered. Wear items like brake discs and windshield wipers generally aren't.
    - sideshowb 5y ago
      It's a matter of proportion. One does not expect brake disks to wear after 2,000km, that's plain defective. If it were 50,000km I'd agree that's more reasonable for a wear item.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
        I completely get that under normal operation brake disks should not be unusable after 2,000km. My point is simply that it's not expected to be a warranty item, so don't be surprised if the dealer hides behind that.
      - dghlsakjg 5y ago
        The issue wasn't that the discs were worn down after 2000km it was that they were "warped". Warping is generally caused not by the rotor warping/bending so much as uneven wear or brake material deposits. This most frequently happens because the system is driven beyond design limits and overheated to the point that the pad material bonds with the rotor. It is also possible that this is a factory related issue and not overheating, but presumably this would have been noted on the test drive, and not after 2,000 km of gas. If I'm the dealer, I ask myself which is more likely: 1. that my delivery inspection mechanic and the customer failed to notice a braking system issue at the time of sale, or 2. that a customer with a new car took it out and pushed it to the limits?

cyberge99 5y ago

Who gets to see the telemetry?

tapoxi 5y ago
In Massachusetts, access to this telemetry by local repair shops is required by our new right-to-repair law. Some manufactures have made a fuss, but hopefully other states follow.
oliwarner 5y ago
Data about how I drive my car? Laughs in GDPR
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  GDPR might have some teeth if it was actually seriously enforced. That's yet to be the case.
  - oliwarner 5y ago
    https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ Sorry, is several million Euros in fines this year, a billion over its lifetime not toothy enough for you? They're going after big players, tiny companies, even individuals. From personal experience, getting access to data about me is usually fast, demanding they delete it appears to work, and my own complaints to the national regulatory body have resulted in me getting my own way. GDPR is great.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      > a billion over its lifetime not toothy enough for you > They're going after big players Don't you see the oxymoron in here? A billion is a non-event for a single one of the big players making their money on stalking, and you're saying that a billion over its lifetime (4 years) across all companies is toothy? Come on. > my own complaints to the national regulatory body have resulted in me getting my own way. I'm glad it works for you, and I guess you must live in a country where the regulator isn't completely useless. In my case, in the UK with the ICO, the best I managed to get out of them is a few letters which the company promptly ignored just like they ignored my own query, and this non-resolution still required significant admin work for me (just so they don't have an excuse to close your complaint on a technicality - despite being handed evidence of a GDPR breach).
- stavros 5y ago
  I love that I might just be able to withdraw consent on my new car, instead of fishing around in the engine block to cut the antenna. Then again, I'm probably going to anyway, for good measure.

Arrath 5y ago

> I guess that telemetry will help manufacturers validate or invalidate warranty claims. I have a feeling this will be one of those one-sided advantages, the manufacturer will review the telemetry and only use the data if it assists them in denying a warranty claim.

HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago

> warrant only covers stuff like engine and bodywork and not consumable parts like brake discs You could have stopped there. After this point, there's really no more to be said.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>After this point, there's really no more to be said. Really? Because if I buy a brand new car and end up with warped brake discs after just 2000km, and the dealer refuses to fix it under warranty, I will raise hell regardless of what technicality the dealer/manufacturer will uses to justify not fixing it.
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
  You're certainly free to do so, but at that point you're really arguing about what should and should not be covered. Wear items like brake discs and windshield wipers generally aren't.
  - sideshowb 5y ago
    It's a matter of proportion. One does not expect brake disks to wear after 2,000km, that's plain defective. If it were 50,000km I'd agree that's more reasonable for a wear item.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
      I completely get that under normal operation brake disks should not be unusable after 2,000km. My point is simply that it's not expected to be a warranty item, so don't be surprised if the dealer hides behind that.
    - dghlsakjg 5y ago
      The issue wasn't that the discs were worn down after 2000km it was that they were "warped". Warping is generally caused not by the rotor warping/bending so much as uneven wear or brake material deposits. This most frequently happens because the system is driven beyond design limits and overheated to the point that the pad material bonds with the rotor. It is also possible that this is a factory related issue and not overheating, but presumably this would have been noted on the test drive, and not after 2,000 km of gas. If I'm the dealer, I ask myself which is more likely: 1. that my delivery inspection mechanic and the customer failed to notice a braking system issue at the time of sale, or 2. that a customer with a new car took it out and pushed it to the limits?