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I was really just making a comment about the disparity between Bismark and Hitler. Bismark was a giant, in every sense of the word, while Hitler was sort of ave

I was really just making a comment about the disparity between Bismark and Hitler. Bismark was a giant, in every sense of the word, while Hitler was sort of average. > a true Prussian conservative That's the issue. Bismark wasn't a true conservative. Conservatives of his time and place were anti-nationalist. Bismark merged nationalism, authoritarianism, and cultural chauvinism to produce a kind of new form of conservatism, that later turned out to be spectacularly dangerous. I don't particularly have anything against Bismark himself (he seems pragmatic and capable) but his legacy was extremely unfortunate.

hef19898 5y ago
Well, he retired in 1890 and died in 1898. He did push for the formation of the German Reich, that's true. It was the first German nation state, one that was truly formed as more than a alliance of various fiefdoms and kingdoms after WW1 with the Weimar Republic. In a way, it turned to shit when Wilhelm II took over and pushed Bismarck out. And was less Bismarck that created the feeling of a German Nation, he more rode on a wave of nationalism. Nationalism, by the way, was pretty new back then. It was also way less negative then it modern nationalism is today.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  > Nationalism, by the way, was pretty new back then. It was also way less negative then it modern nationalism is today. That's what I'm saying. Bismark was (the? a? the most successful?) creator of modern-day nationalism. He proved that you could use nationalism to enhance state power, by transforming it from a movement of oppressed peoples for self-determination, to an homogenizing ideology.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Same word, different meaning. nationalism back then meant that people started to build a common understand of nation states, as opposed to kingdoms and the like before. In Germany that meant the first step in a long journey to actual democracy. Back then France and Great Britain were unified nations already, Germany wasn't. I'd say back then nationalism was an actually good thing, it also provided the theoretical basis, e.g., for the creation of independent Poland after WW1 among other things. That almost 40 years after Bismarck died dick heads like the Nazis and other reactionists turned that concept into something really dangerous can hardly be blamed on Bismarck.

hef19898 5y ago

Well, he retired in 1890 and died in 1898. He did push for the formation of the German Reich, that's true. It was the first German nation state, one that was truly formed as more than a alliance of various fiefdoms and kingdoms after WW1 with the Weimar Republic. In a way, it turned to shit when Wilhelm II took over and pushed Bismarck out. And was less Bismarck that created the feeling of a German Nation, he more rode on a wave of nationalism. Nationalism, by the way, was pretty new back then. It was also way less negative then it modern nationalism is today.

pasabagi 5y ago
> Nationalism, by the way, was pretty new back then. It was also way less negative then it modern nationalism is today. That's what I'm saying. Bismark was (the? a? the most successful?) creator of modern-day nationalism. He proved that you could use nationalism to enhance state power, by transforming it from a movement of oppressed peoples for self-determination, to an homogenizing ideology.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Same word, different meaning. nationalism back then meant that people started to build a common understand of nation states, as opposed to kingdoms and the like before. In Germany that meant the first step in a long journey to actual democracy. Back then France and Great Britain were unified nations already, Germany wasn't. I'd say back then nationalism was an actually good thing, it also provided the theoretical basis, e.g., for the creation of independent Poland after WW1 among other things. That almost 40 years after Bismarck died dick heads like the Nazis and other reactionists turned that concept into something really dangerous can hardly be blamed on Bismarck.