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I am wondering when we are moving over to hydrogen powered vehicles already.

timbit42 5y ago
Hydrogen won't happen in passenger vehicles and it's too expensive to produce for it to be used for much else. Electricity is one of the fundamental forces. Using an element like hydrogen will never be as efficient. To beat electricity, you may be able to do it by controlling one of the other fundamental forces such as gravity.
pdonis 5y ago
Hydrogen has some serious disadvantages for vehicles: it's very difficult to store and it is much more flammable, meaning refueling is much more hazardous. The only potential advantage to it would be if we could mine it, but since we don't live on Jupiter, we can't; we have to make it, and it costs more energy to make it than you get back out of it when you burn it.
- outworlder 5y ago
  > it costs more energy to make it than you get back out of it when you burn it. This is fine. Gasoline has horrendous losses too. The problem is that the most economical way of making hydrogen is by using fossil fuels(natural gas). Just burn the natural gas instead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_reforming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_reforming
  - pdonis 5y ago
    > Gasoline has horrendous losses too. I'm not sure what "horrendous" losses you're referring to, but I assume you mean losses due to inefficiency in combustion. That's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to the fact that hydrogen does not occur in its combustible form on Earth. You can't just refine it by purifying something that comes out of the ground, the way gasoline is refined from crude oil. You have to produce it by some process that basically reverses the chemical reaction that will take place when you burn it. And since the chemical reaction of burning produces a large amount of energy (otherwise you wouldn't use it to do things like power cars), reversing that reaction requires a large amount of energy (which is why steam reforming, as the article you reference says, is strongly endothermic). All that is in addition to the thermodynamic losses that will occur during combustion when you burn the fuel.
outworlder 5y ago
Won't change a thing. Hydrogen vehicles ARE electric vehicles.
- _hypx 5y ago
  Hydrogen cars can be powered by combustion engines.
_hypx 5y ago
We will. The obsession with EVs won't last forever, especially given the finite supply of battery related metals.

Hydrogen won't happen in passenger vehicles and it's too expensive to produce for it to be used for much else. Electricity is one of the fundamental forces. Using an element like hydrogen will never be as efficient. To beat electricity, you may be able to do it by controlling one of the other fundamental forces such as gravity.

pdonis 5y ago

Hydrogen has some serious disadvantages for vehicles: it's very difficult to store and it is much more flammable, meaning refueling is much more hazardous. The only potential advantage to it would be if we could mine it, but since we don't live on Jupiter, we can't; we have to make it, and it costs more energy to make it than you get back out of it when you burn it.

outworlder 5y ago
> it costs more energy to make it than you get back out of it when you burn it. This is fine. Gasoline has horrendous losses too. The problem is that the most economical way of making hydrogen is by using fossil fuels(natural gas). Just burn the natural gas instead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_reforming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_reforming
- pdonis 5y ago
  > Gasoline has horrendous losses too. I'm not sure what "horrendous" losses you're referring to, but I assume you mean losses due to inefficiency in combustion. That's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to the fact that hydrogen does not occur in its combustible form on Earth. You can't just refine it by purifying something that comes out of the ground, the way gasoline is refined from crude oil. You have to produce it by some process that basically reverses the chemical reaction that will take place when you burn it. And since the chemical reaction of burning produces a large amount of energy (otherwise you wouldn't use it to do things like power cars), reversing that reaction requires a large amount of energy (which is why steam reforming, as the article you reference says, is strongly endothermic). All that is in addition to the thermodynamic losses that will occur during combustion when you burn the fuel.

outworlder 5y ago

Won't change a thing. Hydrogen vehicles ARE electric vehicles.

_hypx 5y ago
Hydrogen cars can be powered by combustion engines.

_hypx 5y ago

We will. The obsession with EVs won't last forever, especially given the finite supply of battery related metals.