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You don’t need propaganda to realise that then west is unfathomably rich compared to the rest of the world, and to want to be unfathomably rich yourself. The re

by argsnd 5y ago

You don’t need propaganda to realise that then west is unfathomably rich compared to the rest of the world, and to want to be unfathomably rich yourself. The reason it is so rich is that it has developed inclusive liberal democratic institutions that have enabled it to rather consistently make better choices than the rest of the world. People like you are unable to believe this, and choose to misguide yourselves that it’s “military imperialism” or “propaganda”. The Soviets had both of those things and what happened to them?

qiskit 5y ago
> The reason it is so rich is that it has developed inclusive liberal democratic institutions that have enabled it to rather consistently make better choices than the rest of the world. Simply false. It's because the west was able to steal continents from native and aboriginal peoples and colonize indians, africans, etc. The west became rich before much of the west became a "liberal democracy". > People like you are unable to believe this, and choose to misguide yourselves that it’s “military imperialism” or “propaganda”. I'm from the wealthiest country in the world. I know how we became rich. Not sure where you are from and what "liberal democracy" has to do with anything. It wasn't "liberal democracy" which allowed us to expand from 13 states to 50 states. It wasn't "liberal democracy" that allowed Rockefeller to become the wealthiest man in the world via Standard Oil. Britain didn't become wealthy via liberal democracy. Neither did france and the rest of "the west". > The Soviets had both of those things and what happened to them? They lost the cold war. That's what happened. If you lose a war, you suffer. Applies just as much as to a liberal democracy as it does to a communist state. Which country became wealthy from liberal democracy? Not a single one. Not taiwan, not south korea, not japan, not the US, not any country in europe. The trick is you become rich and then you can play around with liberal democracy. I used to believe the liberal democracy nonsense too. Then I started to think and like most propaganda, it turns out it is nonsense.
- forum_ghost 5y ago
- argsnd 5y ago
  I would encourage you to remove the tinfoil hat and improve your understanding of economics, and I think you’ll realise that distribution of power and decision making played an incredibly outsized role in the rise of the European continent and later the United States. If you want somewhere to start, I can recommend the work of Daron Acemoglu.
  - qiskit 5y ago
    > I would encourage you to remove the tinfoil hat I gave you historical and economic facts. All you have done is respond with childish ad hominems. > and I think you’ll realise that distribution of power and decision making played an incredibly outsized role in the rise of the European continent and later the United States. The british empire, french empire, etc became wealthy as monarchies. And the US became wealthy while 75% of the population weren't allowed to vote. Unless you are saying the US, britain, france, etc became wealthy after ww2. You say liberal democracy is why the west is rich. I proved to you its false. The US, britain, france, etc were all wealthy before liberal democracy. When facts disprove your premise, you don't attack the facts, you dismiss the premise. It's basic logic and reasoning.
    - argsnd 5y ago
      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1574068405010063 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S15740... Start here.

by argsnd 5y ago

qiskit 5y ago

> The reason it is so rich is that it has developed inclusive liberal democratic institutions that have enabled it to rather consistently make better choices than the rest of the world. Simply false. It's because the west was able to steal continents from native and aboriginal peoples and colonize indians, africans, etc. The west became rich before much of the west became a "liberal democracy". > People like you are unable to believe this, and choose to misguide yourselves that it’s “military imperialism” or “propaganda”. I'm from the wealthiest country in the world. I know how we became rich. Not sure where you are from and what "liberal democracy" has to do with anything. It wasn't "liberal democracy" which allowed us to expand from 13 states to 50 states. It wasn't "liberal democracy" that allowed Rockefeller to become the wealthiest man in the world via Standard Oil. Britain didn't become wealthy via liberal democracy. Neither did france and the rest of "the west". > The Soviets had both of those things and what happened to them? They lost the cold war. That's what happened. If you lose a war, you suffer. Applies just as much as to a liberal democracy as it does to a communist state. Which country became wealthy from liberal democracy? Not a single one. Not taiwan, not south korea, not japan, not the US, not any country in europe. The trick is you become rich and then you can play around with liberal democracy. I used to believe the liberal democracy nonsense too. Then I started to think and like most propaganda, it turns out it is nonsense.

forum_ghost 5y ago
argsnd 5y ago
I would encourage you to remove the tinfoil hat and improve your understanding of economics, and I think you’ll realise that distribution of power and decision making played an incredibly outsized role in the rise of the European continent and later the United States. If you want somewhere to start, I can recommend the work of Daron Acemoglu.
- qiskit 5y ago
  > I would encourage you to remove the tinfoil hat I gave you historical and economic facts. All you have done is respond with childish ad hominems. > and I think you’ll realise that distribution of power and decision making played an incredibly outsized role in the rise of the European continent and later the United States. The british empire, french empire, etc became wealthy as monarchies. And the US became wealthy while 75% of the population weren't allowed to vote. Unless you are saying the US, britain, france, etc became wealthy after ww2. You say liberal democracy is why the west is rich. I proved to you its false. The US, britain, france, etc were all wealthy before liberal democracy. When facts disprove your premise, you don't attack the facts, you dismiss the premise. It's basic logic and reasoning.
  - argsnd 5y ago
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1574068405010063 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S15740... Start here.