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This is not limited to EVs - several "old school" manufacturers have not only put uplinks in their cars (obviously just so that the user can do fancy things rem

by bipson 5y ago

This is not limited to EVs - several "old school" manufacturers have not only put uplinks in their cars (obviously just so that the user can do fancy things remotely /s), but also introduced rental options, pay-as-you-go extras (BMW had a "pay 5k, get a few extra kW for a weekend"-thing once, don't know if it still exists). Skoda at least (I expect all of the newer VWs, Audis, Seats, ...) use the built in mobile uplink to gather massive amounts of data about usage, e.g. how often the car is "pushed hard", or driven dangerously. Nobody knows exactly how they will use that, maybe to limit guarantees? - but if the cars is yours and yours only, this shouldn't matter, right? It shouldn't happen in the first place. Well, not anymore I guess. The manufacturers will not limit these possibilities to a certain drive-train technology - why should they? It is also not limited to "newer companies", all of them will do it. Further, if the customer likes these models, the manufacturers (and increasingly more of them) will expand their offering. Heck, the majority of cars on the street where I live are not legally owned anyway, they are all leased and people like that a lot.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
> use the built in mobile uplink to gather massive amounts of data about usage, e.g. how often the car is "pushed hard", or driven dangerously. Nobody knows exactly how they will use that, maybe to limit guarantees? - but if the cars is yours and yours only, this shouldn't matter, right? Why wouldn't it matter? About 10 years ago, a friend bought a brand new VW Polo and after 2000km ended up with warped brake discs. When he went to the VW dealer to have them replaced under warranty, the dealer refused, claiming that the warrant only covers stuff like engine and bodywork and not consumable parts like brake discs, and also that brake discs should not warp under normal usage, which is one of the conditions of the warranty to be valid, and since they are warped, the dealer claimed that the owner mush have been driving his car outside of the normal usage specs the car is rated for and under which the warranty applies. I guess that telemetry will help manufacturers validate or invalidate warranty claims.
- cyberge99 5y ago
  Who gets to see the telemetry?
  - tapoxi 5y ago
    In Massachusetts, access to this telemetry by local repair shops is required by our new right-to-repair law. Some manufactures have made a fuss, but hopefully other states follow.
  - oliwarner 5y ago
    Data about how I drive my car? Laughs in GDPR
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      GDPR might have some teeth if it was actually seriously enforced. That's yet to be the case.
      - oliwarner 5y ago
        https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ Sorry, is several million Euros in fines this year, a billion over its lifetime not toothy enough for you? They're going after big players, tiny companies, even individuals. From personal experience, getting access to data about me is usually fast, demanding they delete it appears to work, and my own complaints to the national regulatory body have resulted in me getting my own way. GDPR is great.
        Nextgrid 5y ago
        > a billion over its lifetime not toothy enough for you > They're going after big players Don't you see the oxymoron in here? A billion is a non-event for a single one of the big players making their money on stalking, and you're saying that a billion over its lifetime (4 years) across all companies is toothy? Come on. > my own complaints to the national regulatory body have resulted in me getting my own way. I'm glad it works for you, and I guess you must live in a country where the regulator isn't completely useless. In my case, in the UK with the ICO, the best I managed to get out of them is a few letters which the company promptly ignored just like they ignored my own query, and this non-resolution still required significant admin work for me (just so they don't have an excuse to close your complaint on a technicality - despite being handed evidence of a GDPR breach).
- Arrath 5y ago
  > I guess that telemetry will help manufacturers validate or invalidate warranty claims. I have a feeling this will be one of those one-sided advantages, the manufacturer will review the telemetry and only use the data if it assists them in denying a warranty claim.
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
  > warrant only covers stuff like engine and bodywork and not consumable parts like brake discs You could have stopped there. After this point, there's really no more to be said.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >After this point, there's really no more to be said. Really? Because if I buy a brand new car and end up with warped brake discs after just 2000km, and the dealer refuses to fix it under warranty, I will raise hell regardless of what technicality the dealer/manufacturer will uses to justify not fixing it.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
      You're certainly free to do so, but at that point you're really arguing about what should and should not be covered. Wear items like brake discs and windshield wipers generally aren't.
      - sideshowb 5y ago
        It's a matter of proportion. One does not expect brake disks to wear after 2,000km, that's plain defective. If it were 50,000km I'd agree that's more reasonable for a wear item.
        HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
        I completely get that under normal operation brake disks should not be unusable after 2,000km. My point is simply that it's not expected to be a warranty item, so don't be surprised if the dealer hides behind that.
        dghlsakjg 5y ago
        The issue wasn't that the discs were worn down after 2000km it was that they were "warped". Warping is generally caused not by the rotor warping/bending so much as uneven wear or brake material deposits. This most frequently happens because the system is driven beyond design limits and overheated to the point that the pad material bonds with the rotor. It is also possible that this is a factory related issue and not overheating, but presumably this would have been noted on the test drive, and not after 2,000 km of gas. If I'm the dealer, I ask myself which is more likely: 1. that my delivery inspection mechanic and the customer failed to notice a braking system issue at the time of sale, or 2. that a customer with a new car took it out and pushed it to the limits?
philistine 5y ago
> Heck, the majority of cars on the street where I live are not legally owned anyway, they are all leased and people like that a lot. It's not the cars that are becoming less car-person centric that's the root of the so-called problem. It's the people themselves that are becoming less car-centric. As we continue to have more and more people in cities (growth outside large cities is basically nil) we need cars less and less. That means ultimately that we care very little about cars. We lease them to get rid of them as soon as possible, we want the least amount of trouble versus the easiest trouble to fix, etc. It's not the cars, it's the people.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by bipson 5y ago

ChuckNorris89 5y ago

> use the built in mobile uplink to gather massive amounts of data about usage, e.g. how often the car is "pushed hard", or driven dangerously. Nobody knows exactly how they will use that, maybe to limit guarantees? - but if the cars is yours and yours only, this shouldn't matter, right? Why wouldn't it matter? About 10 years ago, a friend bought a brand new VW Polo and after 2000km ended up with warped brake discs. When he went to the VW dealer to have them replaced under warranty, the dealer refused, claiming that the warrant only covers stuff like engine and bodywork and not consumable parts like brake discs, and also that brake discs should not warp under normal usage, which is one of the conditions of the warranty to be valid, and since they are warped, the dealer claimed that the owner mush have been driving his car outside of the normal usage specs the car is rated for and under which the warranty applies. I guess that telemetry will help manufacturers validate or invalidate warranty claims.

cyberge99 5y ago
Who gets to see the telemetry?
- tapoxi 5y ago
  In Massachusetts, access to this telemetry by local repair shops is required by our new right-to-repair law. Some manufactures have made a fuss, but hopefully other states follow.
- oliwarner 5y ago
  Data about how I drive my car? Laughs in GDPR
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    GDPR might have some teeth if it was actually seriously enforced. That's yet to be the case.
    - oliwarner 5y ago
      https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ Sorry, is several million Euros in fines this year, a billion over its lifetime not toothy enough for you? They're going after big players, tiny companies, even individuals. From personal experience, getting access to data about me is usually fast, demanding they delete it appears to work, and my own complaints to the national regulatory body have resulted in me getting my own way. GDPR is great.
      - Nextgrid 5y ago
        > a billion over its lifetime not toothy enough for you > They're going after big players Don't you see the oxymoron in here? A billion is a non-event for a single one of the big players making their money on stalking, and you're saying that a billion over its lifetime (4 years) across all companies is toothy? Come on. > my own complaints to the national regulatory body have resulted in me getting my own way. I'm glad it works for you, and I guess you must live in a country where the regulator isn't completely useless. In my case, in the UK with the ICO, the best I managed to get out of them is a few letters which the company promptly ignored just like they ignored my own query, and this non-resolution still required significant admin work for me (just so they don't have an excuse to close your complaint on a technicality - despite being handed evidence of a GDPR breach).
Arrath 5y ago
> I guess that telemetry will help manufacturers validate or invalidate warranty claims. I have a feeling this will be one of those one-sided advantages, the manufacturer will review the telemetry and only use the data if it assists them in denying a warranty claim.
HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
> warrant only covers stuff like engine and bodywork and not consumable parts like brake discs You could have stopped there. After this point, there's really no more to be said.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >After this point, there's really no more to be said. Really? Because if I buy a brand new car and end up with warped brake discs after just 2000km, and the dealer refuses to fix it under warranty, I will raise hell regardless of what technicality the dealer/manufacturer will uses to justify not fixing it.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
    You're certainly free to do so, but at that point you're really arguing about what should and should not be covered. Wear items like brake discs and windshield wipers generally aren't.
    - sideshowb 5y ago
      It's a matter of proportion. One does not expect brake disks to wear after 2,000km, that's plain defective. If it were 50,000km I'd agree that's more reasonable for a wear item.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
        I completely get that under normal operation brake disks should not be unusable after 2,000km. My point is simply that it's not expected to be a warranty item, so don't be surprised if the dealer hides behind that.
      - dghlsakjg 5y ago
        The issue wasn't that the discs were worn down after 2000km it was that they were "warped". Warping is generally caused not by the rotor warping/bending so much as uneven wear or brake material deposits. This most frequently happens because the system is driven beyond design limits and overheated to the point that the pad material bonds with the rotor. It is also possible that this is a factory related issue and not overheating, but presumably this would have been noted on the test drive, and not after 2,000 km of gas. If I'm the dealer, I ask myself which is more likely: 1. that my delivery inspection mechanic and the customer failed to notice a braking system issue at the time of sale, or 2. that a customer with a new car took it out and pushed it to the limits?

philistine 5y ago

> Heck, the majority of cars on the street where I live are not legally owned anyway, they are all leased and people like that a lot. It's not the cars that are becoming less car-person centric that's the root of the so-called problem. It's the people themselves that are becoming less car-centric. As we continue to have more and more people in cities (growth outside large cities is basically nil) we need cars less and less. That means ultimately that we care very little about cars. We lease them to get rid of them as soon as possible, we want the least amount of trouble versus the easiest trouble to fix, etc. It's not the cars, it's the people.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]