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The glorification and even fetishisation of plain, everyday things in Japan simply because they're thought of as being uniquely "Japanese" is a weird aspect of

The glorification and even fetishisation of plain, everyday things in Japan simply because they're thought of as being uniquely "Japanese" is a weird aspect of the culture, which thanks to the Internet has found many adopters from all over the world. It's a function of an ultranationalist view of one's own culture as being "uniquely unique", i.e. more unique than any other culture is unique. The Japanese even did come up with a quack "science" named "Nihonjinron" which is still a basis of the domestic school curricula. This and the military, rote-learning nature of their education system leads to obviously ridiculous overestimations like the alleged "magic" of a convenience store sandwich never being questioned or ridiculed, so they stick. Any Japanese person in Japan is confronted with a million little "Nihonjinron" falsehoods like this one every day, thereby creating a false sense of superiority and regrettably, xenophobia and chauvinist nationalism: "All other cultures are inferior to ours!", "Are your convenience store sandwiches even magical, gaijin bro??"

Chris2048 5y ago
You get something similar in anime, especially Isekai ("other world") where the protagonist travels to some other worlds and amazes its inhabitants with something Japanese - Japanese food especially are nearly always founds to be extraordinarily delicious.
- suction 5y ago
  Lots of Anime / Manga is state sponsored through the government's "Cool Japan" initiative, a very well funded undertaking to project soft power into the world through pop-cultural means. That's why a lot of the content is either putting Japanese culture on a pedestal, or showing the "outside world" as a dangerous, uncultured place. Exceptions apply of course - Japanese people have weird ideas about Paris, for example, which they think of as "almost as good as Japan". I guess by associating themselves with French culture, they think it will make them more cultured in turn. A funny side-effect of that is "Paris Syndrome" - a described ailment in Japanese medicine for the culture shock when Japanese people travel to Paris for the first time and see that there are Africans, or men with beards, or a candy wrapper next to a trash can. There are reports of Japanese women fainting on the streets of Paris by the truck load.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    That would make it even stranger given some of the dubious material in those anime. Gate is basically A JSDF ad, but still has a loli vampire in it..
freetime2 5y ago
I find this to be a really odd and cynical take on Japanese culture. It’s true that the Japanese take pride in certain aspects of their culture - and rightfully so - but isn’t this true of every culture? I am from the United States, where “American Exceptionalism” is a phrase that is used non-ironically. The American flag is plastered everywhere, and pickup truck commercials routinely go on and on at length about how tough Americans are. I find the Japanese to be quite modest by comparison. I also think that the “fetishization” of every day items in Japan is not being driven by the Japanese, but by foreigners who are genuinely impressed by things they have seen there. I could go on at length about different things they do well in Japan that I would like to bring home. Today it is convenience store sandwiches. Can I ask what country you are from where people don’t have any unique cultural offerings that they are proud of?
- telchior 5y ago
  You're making quite a leap there -- asking OP what country they're from that doesn't have "any" unique offerings and conflating that with the idea that the level of self-pride is up there with America or Japan. Pride, and self-esteem, live on a spectrum. Having any pride at all is not equivalent to having absurdist levels of it. And from my experience, a lot of people in countries that weren't very successful (usually: poor, corrupt, or colonized) in the 20th century are pretty muted in their pride and/or will readily believe that people from other countries are "better".
- RicoElectrico 5y ago
  > I also think that the “fetishization” of every day items in Japan is not being driven by the Japanese Well, the Japanese themselves made capsule toys (i.e. collectibles you can get from gacha machines) out of water heater thermostats. https://japantoday.com/category/features/new-products/new-miniatures-celebrate-a-home-icon https://japantoday.com/category/features/new-products/new-mi...
  - BizarroLand 5y ago
    That's just cute though, I mean, why not make toys out of them?
kobejean 5y ago
I've lived in Japan most of my life and while there is some truth to what you say, I think the notion that Japanese are ultranationalists or that they think all other cultures are inferior to Japan's is plain wrong. One thing is that nationalism is taboo in Japan. While Japan doesn't reflect on its war past as strongly as Germany, there is still a strong sense of guilt and any nationalistic sentiment reminds them of war times and is perceived as creepy. Also a survey showed that Japanese don't have as much confidence in their technology and economy compared to what other countries think about Japan. I think this is largely because the Japanese are more aware of Japan's decline than people from other countries who's impression of Japan might be from the 90s, at the peak of Japan's economy. Also humility is a strong part of Japanese culture. That said, Japanese will love it when foreigners talk about their convenience stores, or any other praises about Japanese culture. I also agree that foreign media outlets fetishize Japan when Japan is just a normal country just like any other. Foreign media often write stories about Japan having a family renting business for example, and that particular story turns out to be completely made up. They also write stories that exaggerate Japanese politeness. Then on the other hand there are stories that exaggerate Japan's ultranationalism which is a very fringe movement. Foreign media just write whatever drives clicks and so Japan gets depicted as more unusual than it really is. Also Japanese aren't so aware of what is written about them and even when they are, they don't react strongly so as to force Journalists to correct their stories.
- suction 5y ago
  How is nationalism a taboo when basically all prime ministers since WW2 got into office on the nationalist or even ultranationalist ticket? Shinzo Abe is the most recent example - how many times was he elected, three or four I think. So your premise is wrong, I think you might have mistaken the façade the Japanese show to the world as the real thing. True, they won't tell you they think Japan is above all others because that would be rude, but they sure as hell believe it.
  - kobebeef 5y ago
    Well you are right that the LDP, the conservative party, has been elected basically every time in post war Japan. I disagree that it is based on nationalism though. LDP gained power with the help of the CIA when the US was worried about the Soviet Union and wanted to rearm Japan (the LDP wants to rearm Japan). The majority of Japanese public has even up to this day been opposed to getting rid of Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution which outlaws Japan from going to war, which is why Japan's constitution remains as the oldest unamended constitution in the world despite the LDP's efforts to amend it. I think there's a big gap between how the LDP's right wing members (its worth noting that the LDP is a large multi faction party with a wide range of political ideology) and the Japanese public largely because many LDP members are relatives of people responsible for WW2 and so they have revisionist view of the war. The Japanese public on the other hand are Pacifists because of Pacifist education. Teacher's unions were largely socialist/communist especially the early days and strongly against imperialism. Also pacifism is a part of Japanese identity because of the constitution that prohibits war, much like how gun ownership is a part of American identity. The LDP has been in power so long that it is really the only party that has experience running the country. Japan has had brief success in electing opposition parts two times, but both times, a major earthquake occurred (1995, 2011) and the Japanese public wanted the LDP back for stability. I think that the LDP remains in power today because Japanese want stability and harmony. I will say that pacifism is waning, but this has less to do with a sort of make Japan greater again nationalism and more to do with North Korean missiles being fired towards Japan. Again Japanese want stability and harmony so slowly opening up to the possibility of constitutional revision is largely a factor of wanting stability. This also means the Japanese absolutely hate the fringe ultra nationalists who blast their hatred on their mega phone vans. I will say though, the desire for stability and harmony also helps the nationalists because the left (besides the communist party) sees protests as divisive and unfortunately pushback against the right is rather weak.
thrashh 5y ago
IMO the only reason we (Americans) fetishize Japanese culture is because we know about it. That’s all. They export their culture better than most other countries (and not necessarily intentionally). People fetishize American culture in other places. Why? Because we export it. Any group of people will have someone that will find something cool. But that someone must first know about that something.
TheFattestNinja 5y ago
I dont think its so simple. Japonism was a phenomenon rampaging through Europe in the arts and high society well before transistors existed. You dont get quite the same thing for other "exotic" cultures. There must be more to it.
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  I think it's more a question of degree, Europeans were also obsessed with ancient Egypt[1] at the same time. But that faded away, where Japanese culture has retained its appeal. Of course, ironically anime are full of medieval European-esque knights and wizards and elves, so the draw of 'exotica' is widespread. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptomania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptomania
- simonh 5y ago
  I suspect part of it is that China was so cut off from the rest of the world for so long over the last century. When I was growing up through the 70s and 80s, and even the 90s the only asian culture you got exposed to was mainly Japanese culture and Hong Kong movies. Mainland China was a cultural black box. Even the Chinese culture we did have access to, like "The Water Margin" and "Monkey" TV shows were Japanese productions.
  - CPLX 5y ago
    I also grew up in that era and the other part worth mentioning is that Japan seemed to be taking over the world economically. Japanese cars rapidly replaced American cars on the landscape, Japanese electronics did the same. Japanese money was said to buying up the entire country. It was pretty natural to fetishize a culture that seemed so staggeringly successful and ascendant.
- yywwbbn 5y ago
  I think Japan cultural was/is seen as both ‘untainted’* due to their historical isolationism and the ability to mostly resist foreign encroachment and sufficiently sophisticated enough not be considered inferior which makes it pretty unique from the western perspective. *of course modern Japanese society is probably much closer to Victorian Britain than to what Japan was in the 1850s
presentation 5y ago
That said Japanese convenience stores really are awesome and I wish the rest of the world had them.
- suction 5y ago
  You must not have seen much of the world, then.
  - itsyaboi 5y ago
    As the saying goes: "If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all". Can you instead share examples of interesting convenience stores from other countries or cultures? I'm sure there are many people here who have not had the opportunity to travel and would like to live vicariously :)
    - suction 5y ago
      You need to think outside the box. You can have actually great to-go food without ever entering a convenience stores, even in Japan or the US. This notion that "I want Japanese trash food to be respected" is as hilarious as it is creepy to me.
  - fsckboy 5y ago
    his sentence makes perfect sense if some of the parts of the world he has been to don't have them. in that case, it's you who has not seen enough parts of the world to understand his pov, to wishe the rest of the world had them
    - suction 5y ago
      I've seen of the world what I need to see, that includes Japan and the US. Wasn't impressed.
  - presentation 5y ago
    I live in Japan; other parts of Asia have the same usual Japanese combini brands (I’ve lived in Shanghai and spent time all around China, Taiwan, Thailand, the Philippines, Cambodia, HK, Singapore, Korea), they are nice but admittedly I have no idea if they also satisfy the vast breadth of services that you can do at the Japanese ones (shipping and receiving packages, getting documents from your local government, paying all your taxes, buying tickets to events and travel, faxing documents internationally, and more - I have used all of these many many times and am glad they’ve had them), not to mention the glut of variety of snacks, sweets, full meals, very well executed frozen foods, and warm prepared foods, all of which are delicious, often competitive with eating out. They’re always sparkling clean and usually can do everything without any hassle or even talking to another person, within seconds. Amazing operations if you ask me. I have been all around the North American continent; there are no places as far as I know that have anything remotely as nice as a Japanese convenience store anywhere there. American drug stores absolutely suck in comparison and all the food they sell are pretty much disgusting in comparison. Everywhere I’ve been to in the Middle East (Lebanon, Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Turkey) also lacks analogous businesses as far as I recall. I don’t know the current state of convenience stores in Europe since I haven’t dropped by anywhere in the last several years, but in my travels of Germany, Italy, and Iceland, I don’t recall ever seeing anything analogous. Maybe I just didn’t know to look for. I have also been to parts of India, and once again, maybe I didn’t know what to look for but didn’t see anything analogous there either (though the explosion in delivery businesses as of late looks interesting, but a different category altogether). So yeah; I’m interested in knowing what experiences you’ve had that make you confident I’m living under a rock.

Chris2048 5y ago

You get something similar in anime, especially Isekai ("other world") where the protagonist travels to some other worlds and amazes its inhabitants with something Japanese - Japanese food especially are nearly always founds to be extraordinarily delicious.

suction 5y ago
Lots of Anime / Manga is state sponsored through the government's "Cool Japan" initiative, a very well funded undertaking to project soft power into the world through pop-cultural means. That's why a lot of the content is either putting Japanese culture on a pedestal, or showing the "outside world" as a dangerous, uncultured place. Exceptions apply of course - Japanese people have weird ideas about Paris, for example, which they think of as "almost as good as Japan". I guess by associating themselves with French culture, they think it will make them more cultured in turn. A funny side-effect of that is "Paris Syndrome" - a described ailment in Japanese medicine for the culture shock when Japanese people travel to Paris for the first time and see that there are Africans, or men with beards, or a candy wrapper next to a trash can. There are reports of Japanese women fainting on the streets of Paris by the truck load.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  That would make it even stranger given some of the dubious material in those anime. Gate is basically A JSDF ad, but still has a loli vampire in it..

freetime2 5y ago

I find this to be a really odd and cynical take on Japanese culture. It’s true that the Japanese take pride in certain aspects of their culture - and rightfully so - but isn’t this true of every culture? I am from the United States, where “American Exceptionalism” is a phrase that is used non-ironically. The American flag is plastered everywhere, and pickup truck commercials routinely go on and on at length about how tough Americans are. I find the Japanese to be quite modest by comparison. I also think that the “fetishization” of every day items in Japan is not being driven by the Japanese, but by foreigners who are genuinely impressed by things they have seen there. I could go on at length about different things they do well in Japan that I would like to bring home. Today it is convenience store sandwiches. Can I ask what country you are from where people don’t have any unique cultural offerings that they are proud of?

telchior 5y ago
You're making quite a leap there -- asking OP what country they're from that doesn't have "any" unique offerings and conflating that with the idea that the level of self-pride is up there with America or Japan. Pride, and self-esteem, live on a spectrum. Having any pride at all is not equivalent to having absurdist levels of it. And from my experience, a lot of people in countries that weren't very successful (usually: poor, corrupt, or colonized) in the 20th century are pretty muted in their pride and/or will readily believe that people from other countries are "better".
RicoElectrico 5y ago
> I also think that the “fetishization” of every day items in Japan is not being driven by the Japanese Well, the Japanese themselves made capsule toys (i.e. collectibles you can get from gacha machines) out of water heater thermostats. https://japantoday.com/category/features/new-products/new-miniatures-celebrate-a-home-icon https://japantoday.com/category/features/new-products/new-mi...
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  That's just cute though, I mean, why not make toys out of them?

kobejean 5y ago

I've lived in Japan most of my life and while there is some truth to what you say, I think the notion that Japanese are ultranationalists or that they think all other cultures are inferior to Japan's is plain wrong. One thing is that nationalism is taboo in Japan. While Japan doesn't reflect on its war past as strongly as Germany, there is still a strong sense of guilt and any nationalistic sentiment reminds them of war times and is perceived as creepy. Also a survey showed that Japanese don't have as much confidence in their technology and economy compared to what other countries think about Japan. I think this is largely because the Japanese are more aware of Japan's decline than people from other countries who's impression of Japan might be from the 90s, at the peak of Japan's economy. Also humility is a strong part of Japanese culture. That said, Japanese will love it when foreigners talk about their convenience stores, or any other praises about Japanese culture. I also agree that foreign media outlets fetishize Japan when Japan is just a normal country just like any other. Foreign media often write stories about Japan having a family renting business for example, and that particular story turns out to be completely made up. They also write stories that exaggerate Japanese politeness. Then on the other hand there are stories that exaggerate Japan's ultranationalism which is a very fringe movement. Foreign media just write whatever drives clicks and so Japan gets depicted as more unusual than it really is. Also Japanese aren't so aware of what is written about them and even when they are, they don't react strongly so as to force Journalists to correct their stories.

suction 5y ago
How is nationalism a taboo when basically all prime ministers since WW2 got into office on the nationalist or even ultranationalist ticket? Shinzo Abe is the most recent example - how many times was he elected, three or four I think. So your premise is wrong, I think you might have mistaken the façade the Japanese show to the world as the real thing. True, they won't tell you they think Japan is above all others because that would be rude, but they sure as hell believe it.
- kobebeef 5y ago
  Well you are right that the LDP, the conservative party, has been elected basically every time in post war Japan. I disagree that it is based on nationalism though. LDP gained power with the help of the CIA when the US was worried about the Soviet Union and wanted to rearm Japan (the LDP wants to rearm Japan). The majority of Japanese public has even up to this day been opposed to getting rid of Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution which outlaws Japan from going to war, which is why Japan's constitution remains as the oldest unamended constitution in the world despite the LDP's efforts to amend it. I think there's a big gap between how the LDP's right wing members (its worth noting that the LDP is a large multi faction party with a wide range of political ideology) and the Japanese public largely because many LDP members are relatives of people responsible for WW2 and so they have revisionist view of the war. The Japanese public on the other hand are Pacifists because of Pacifist education. Teacher's unions were largely socialist/communist especially the early days and strongly against imperialism. Also pacifism is a part of Japanese identity because of the constitution that prohibits war, much like how gun ownership is a part of American identity. The LDP has been in power so long that it is really the only party that has experience running the country. Japan has had brief success in electing opposition parts two times, but both times, a major earthquake occurred (1995, 2011) and the Japanese public wanted the LDP back for stability. I think that the LDP remains in power today because Japanese want stability and harmony. I will say that pacifism is waning, but this has less to do with a sort of make Japan greater again nationalism and more to do with North Korean missiles being fired towards Japan. Again Japanese want stability and harmony so slowly opening up to the possibility of constitutional revision is largely a factor of wanting stability. This also means the Japanese absolutely hate the fringe ultra nationalists who blast their hatred on their mega phone vans. I will say though, the desire for stability and harmony also helps the nationalists because the left (besides the communist party) sees protests as divisive and unfortunately pushback against the right is rather weak.

thrashh 5y ago

IMO the only reason we (Americans) fetishize Japanese culture is because we know about it. That’s all. They export their culture better than most other countries (and not necessarily intentionally). People fetishize American culture in other places. Why? Because we export it. Any group of people will have someone that will find something cool. But that someone must first know about that something.

TheFattestNinja 5y ago

I dont think its so simple. Japonism was a phenomenon rampaging through Europe in the arts and high society well before transistors existed. You dont get quite the same thing for other "exotic" cultures. There must be more to it.

blacksmith_tb 5y ago
I think it's more a question of degree, Europeans were also obsessed with ancient Egypt[1] at the same time. But that faded away, where Japanese culture has retained its appeal. Of course, ironically anime are full of medieval European-esque knights and wizards and elves, so the draw of 'exotica' is widespread. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptomania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptomania
simonh 5y ago
I suspect part of it is that China was so cut off from the rest of the world for so long over the last century. When I was growing up through the 70s and 80s, and even the 90s the only asian culture you got exposed to was mainly Japanese culture and Hong Kong movies. Mainland China was a cultural black box. Even the Chinese culture we did have access to, like "The Water Margin" and "Monkey" TV shows were Japanese productions.
- CPLX 5y ago
  I also grew up in that era and the other part worth mentioning is that Japan seemed to be taking over the world economically. Japanese cars rapidly replaced American cars on the landscape, Japanese electronics did the same. Japanese money was said to buying up the entire country. It was pretty natural to fetishize a culture that seemed so staggeringly successful and ascendant.
yywwbbn 5y ago
I think Japan cultural was/is seen as both ‘untainted’* due to their historical isolationism and the ability to mostly resist foreign encroachment and sufficiently sophisticated enough not be considered inferior which makes it pretty unique from the western perspective. *of course modern Japanese society is probably much closer to Victorian Britain than to what Japan was in the 1850s

presentation 5y ago

That said Japanese convenience stores really are awesome and I wish the rest of the world had them.

suction 5y ago
You must not have seen much of the world, then.
- itsyaboi 5y ago
  As the saying goes: "If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all". Can you instead share examples of interesting convenience stores from other countries or cultures? I'm sure there are many people here who have not had the opportunity to travel and would like to live vicariously :)
  - suction 5y ago
    You need to think outside the box. You can have actually great to-go food without ever entering a convenience stores, even in Japan or the US. This notion that "I want Japanese trash food to be respected" is as hilarious as it is creepy to me.
- fsckboy 5y ago
  his sentence makes perfect sense if some of the parts of the world he has been to don't have them. in that case, it's you who has not seen enough parts of the world to understand his pov, to wishe the rest of the world had them
  - suction 5y ago
    I've seen of the world what I need to see, that includes Japan and the US. Wasn't impressed.
- presentation 5y ago
  I live in Japan; other parts of Asia have the same usual Japanese combini brands (I’ve lived in Shanghai and spent time all around China, Taiwan, Thailand, the Philippines, Cambodia, HK, Singapore, Korea), they are nice but admittedly I have no idea if they also satisfy the vast breadth of services that you can do at the Japanese ones (shipping and receiving packages, getting documents from your local government, paying all your taxes, buying tickets to events and travel, faxing documents internationally, and more - I have used all of these many many times and am glad they’ve had them), not to mention the glut of variety of snacks, sweets, full meals, very well executed frozen foods, and warm prepared foods, all of which are delicious, often competitive with eating out. They’re always sparkling clean and usually can do everything without any hassle or even talking to another person, within seconds. Amazing operations if you ask me. I have been all around the North American continent; there are no places as far as I know that have anything remotely as nice as a Japanese convenience store anywhere there. American drug stores absolutely suck in comparison and all the food they sell are pretty much disgusting in comparison. Everywhere I’ve been to in the Middle East (Lebanon, Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Turkey) also lacks analogous businesses as far as I recall. I don’t know the current state of convenience stores in Europe since I haven’t dropped by anywhere in the last several years, but in my travels of Germany, Italy, and Iceland, I don’t recall ever seeing anything analogous. Maybe I just didn’t know to look for. I have also been to parts of India, and once again, maybe I didn’t know what to look for but didn’t see anything analogous there either (though the explosion in delivery businesses as of late looks interesting, but a different category altogether). So yeah; I’m interested in knowing what experiences you’ve had that make you confident I’m living under a rock.