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Where in the hell are you getting 10% from? Ukraine has a multi-party government and their neo-nazis don't have even a single seat in their rather large parliam

Where in the hell are you getting 10% from? Ukraine has a multi-party government and their neo-nazis don't have even a single seat in their rather large parliament.

ashwagary 5y ago
My 8-10% figure is quite conservative when compared with recent polling data. The Neo-Nazi movements are popular enough that Zelenskyy had to walk back his anti-Banderite rhetoric that was a decent part of his comedic act pre-2015-ish (I have only seen a few of his comedic specials from before that year so this timeframe is a rough guess). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Attitudes_in_Ukraine_towards_Bandera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Attitudes_in_Uk... >A poll conducted in early May 2021 by the Democratic Initiatives Foundation together with the Razumkov Centre's sociological service showed that 32% of citizens consider Stepan Bandera's activity as a historical figure to be positive for Ukraine, as many consider his activity negative; another 21% consider Bandera's activities as positive as they are negative. According to the poll, a positive attitude prevails in the western region of Ukraine (70%); in the central region of the state, 27% of respondents consider his activity positive, 27% consider his activity negative and 27% consider his activity both positive and negative; negative attitude prevails in the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine (54% and 48% of respondents consider his activity negative for Ukraine, respectively). >Monuments dedicated to Stepan Bandera have been constructured in a number of western Ukrainian cities, including a statue in Lviv, as well as Staryi Uhryniv, Kolomyia, Drohobych, Zalishchyky, Mykytyntsi, Uzyn, Buchach, Hrabivka, Horodenka, Staryi Sambir, Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Strusiv, Truskavets, Horishniy, Velykosilky, Sambir, Velyki Mosty, Skole, Turka, Zdolbuniv,Chortkiv, Sniatyn, and in such cities and villages as Berezhany, Boryslav, Chervonohrad, Dubliany, Kamianka-Buzka, Kremenets, Mostyska, Pidvolochysk, Seredniy Bereziv, Terebovlia, Verbiv, and Volia-Zaderevatska. >In 2010 and 2011, Bandera was named an honorary citizen of a number of western Ukrainian cities, including Khust,Nadvirna, Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Lviv, Kolomyia, Dolyna,Varash, Lutsk, Chervonohrad, Terebovlia, Truskavets, Radekhiv, Sokal,Stebnyk, Zhovkva,Skole, Berezhany, Sambir,Boryslav, Brody, Stryi, and Morshyn.
helge9210 5y ago
Term "Nazi" originally and in modern Russian [propaganda] have a different meaning. "Being Ukrainian (speaking the language, knowing the history, preserving the culture)" is equal to being "Nazi" in the eyes of Russians. So 10% are those, who would not make compromises related to language, history and culture to have some economic or political gains.
- ashwagary 5y ago
  >Term "Nazi" originally and in modern Russian [propaganda] have a different meaning. The militia that Stepan Bandera was a leader of exterminated an estimated ~200,000 Jews. I don't think the term "Nazi" is as different as you claim. Please provide sources for any counterarguments you make. I welcome legitimate pushback to this polling data and the public historical claims.
  - helge9210 5y ago
    > The militia that Stepan Bandera was a leader of exterminated an estimated ~200,000 Jews That would constitute a crime against humanity. Can you point to any trial against members of this organisation?
    - ashwagary 5y ago
      >Can you point to any trial against members of this organisation? That question is a canard, US allies are generally always given a pass. The Imperial Japanese got a slap on the wrist for mass murders in Asia during WW2 criminal trials, since they were helping destabilize China. Ukrainian Nazi groups were given similar treatment since they were helping fight the USSR. This is common knowledge that any observant historian can verify. Here are some details of the horrific history of Ukrainian Banderites committing genocide against innocent Jewish civilians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia#Massacres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia...
      - helge9210 5y ago
ttybird2 5y ago
I saw this yesterday but I do not know how accurate it is https://twitter.com/AngletonOrchids/status/1501025414386524163 https://twitter.com/AngletonOrchids/status/15010254143865241...

Where in the hell are you getting 10% from? Ukraine has a multi-party government and their neo-nazis don't have even a single seat in their rather large parliament.

ashwagary 5y ago

My 8-10% figure is quite conservative when compared with recent polling data. The Neo-Nazi movements are popular enough that Zelenskyy had to walk back his anti-Banderite rhetoric that was a decent part of his comedic act pre-2015-ish (I have only seen a few of his comedic specials from before that year so this timeframe is a rough guess). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Attitudes_in_Ukraine_towards_Bandera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#Attitudes_in_Uk... >A poll conducted in early May 2021 by the Democratic Initiatives Foundation together with the Razumkov Centre's sociological service showed that 32% of citizens consider Stepan Bandera's activity as a historical figure to be positive for Ukraine, as many consider his activity negative; another 21% consider Bandera's activities as positive as they are negative. According to the poll, a positive attitude prevails in the western region of Ukraine (70%); in the central region of the state, 27% of respondents consider his activity positive, 27% consider his activity negative and 27% consider his activity both positive and negative; negative attitude prevails in the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine (54% and 48% of respondents consider his activity negative for Ukraine, respectively). >Monuments dedicated to Stepan Bandera have been constructured in a number of western Ukrainian cities, including a statue in Lviv, as well as Staryi Uhryniv, Kolomyia, Drohobych, Zalishchyky, Mykytyntsi, Uzyn, Buchach, Hrabivka, Horodenka, Staryi Sambir, Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Strusiv, Truskavets, Horishniy, Velykosilky, Sambir, Velyki Mosty, Skole, Turka, Zdolbuniv,Chortkiv, Sniatyn, and in such cities and villages as Berezhany, Boryslav, Chervonohrad, Dubliany, Kamianka-Buzka, Kremenets, Mostyska, Pidvolochysk, Seredniy Bereziv, Terebovlia, Verbiv, and Volia-Zaderevatska. >In 2010 and 2011, Bandera was named an honorary citizen of a number of western Ukrainian cities, including Khust,Nadvirna, Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivsk, Lviv, Kolomyia, Dolyna,Varash, Lutsk, Chervonohrad, Terebovlia, Truskavets, Radekhiv, Sokal,Stebnyk, Zhovkva,Skole, Berezhany, Sambir,Boryslav, Brody, Stryi, and Morshyn.

helge9210 5y ago

Term "Nazi" originally and in modern Russian [propaganda] have a different meaning. "Being Ukrainian (speaking the language, knowing the history, preserving the culture)" is equal to being "Nazi" in the eyes of Russians. So 10% are those, who would not make compromises related to language, history and culture to have some economic or political gains.

ashwagary 5y ago
>Term "Nazi" originally and in modern Russian [propaganda] have a different meaning. The militia that Stepan Bandera was a leader of exterminated an estimated ~200,000 Jews. I don't think the term "Nazi" is as different as you claim. Please provide sources for any counterarguments you make. I welcome legitimate pushback to this polling data and the public historical claims.
- helge9210 5y ago
  > The militia that Stepan Bandera was a leader of exterminated an estimated ~200,000 Jews That would constitute a crime against humanity. Can you point to any trial against members of this organisation?
  - ashwagary 5y ago
    >Can you point to any trial against members of this organisation? That question is a canard, US allies are generally always given a pass. The Imperial Japanese got a slap on the wrist for mass murders in Asia during WW2 criminal trials, since they were helping destabilize China. Ukrainian Nazi groups were given similar treatment since they were helping fight the USSR. This is common knowledge that any observant historian can verify. Here are some details of the horrific history of Ukrainian Banderites committing genocide against innocent Jewish civilians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia#Massacres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia...
    - helge9210 5y ago

ttybird2 5y ago

I saw this yesterday but I do not know how accurate it is https://twitter.com/AngletonOrchids/status/1501025414386524163 https://twitter.com/AngletonOrchids/status/15010254143865241...