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I see resumes like that a lot. In generally move past them. The cost of churn is high and people who constantly job hop aren't worth the effort or the potential

I see resumes like that a lot. In generally move past them. The cost of churn is high and people who constantly job hop aren't worth the effort or the potential impact to team morale. I say this as an engineering hiring manager. I've job hopped too but I always shoot for at least for years. I don't always make it but I plan for it.

Ithrowthisaway 5y ago
Normally people don't like to job hop. It is unnecessary stress. However, people have responsibilities to their families. If you are concerned of job hoppers then why don't you help them to alleviate their burden. If not, and if other companies are paying higher somewhere else, why would that person stay? That would be doing a disservice to him/her and his/her family. son: "dad, why can't we go to vacation this year?" dad: "sorry son, don't have enough money. still got bills to pay and dad's company don't give enough raise." son: "why can't you just find another job?" dad: "that's treason son, we don't do that here. think of the team morale son." son: "okay dad. i love you."
- sdoering 5y ago
  If someone job hops I don't recommend them for further interview rounds. Even in an agency setting were turn over is high. I don't want people like that on my team. I have one 7 months stint in my resume and that is framed by 5.5 on one side and now more than 7 years in my current job. My pay increased by >90 percent in my current job. The people I work with are really great and I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone for that team that goes out of their way to support each other that is only in it for themselves. I personally don't want hedonistic people on the team I am playing on. And a word about crafting BS emotional stories around how a family suffers because someone doesn't job hop. WTF. If one can't go on vacation because they did not receive a raise they are not acting financially responsible. Especially when having a family. Vacation imho always should come out of a play money budget. Put aside some amount of money every month for play and/or vacation. Next to money you put to the side for emergencies. Then pay the bills and still have money to spend. This is financially sound planning. If either one of these is missing people are not planning their financials good enough. At least imho. If anyone ever tells their kid that they are incapable of going on vacation because of a raise too low their kid should answer that they are sad their parents are lying to them about their financial incompetence.
  - Ithrowthisaway 5y ago
    Thanks for the long reply. It seems our way of seeing things are just different, irreconciliably different. Like, fire and water different. Like, extra terrestial beings different. That being said, skipping on job hopper’s resume actually brings positive on both sides. We avoid wasting each others’ time. You are doing the right thing. Actually, real life is way way more cruel than the 5 line dialogue that I described above. You don't know what people struggle in their life. Maybe, hmmm, just maybe, they are supporting a few older generation women in their family that are all divorced and no longer can work? Just maybe, hmm... Maybe, just maybe, that person has an aspiration of doing better for the world instead of chasing compensation, but limited by his/her circumstances, so he/she has to do leetcode + jumping ships all the time, just maybe. Reality is brutal, cruel. Some people have so much, yet some people have so little.
    - sdoering 5y ago
      I value other personality traits and people scoring differently on the big five. Especially agreeableness. I experienced them providing a better and more long term productive team setup. So I pass on candidates that (on average and I might miss out on great people once in a while) tend to value short term personal gains. In the end it is a question of how (better in which direction) one tries to influence the environment one is in. And I decided to take an approach geared towards longevity and sustainability of the team environment.
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    > My pay increased by >90 percent in my current job. I've increased my comp by 250% over 8 years vs your ~90% in 7 years. That's what you're missing out on.
    - sdoering 5y ago
      I see I wasn't able to make my point. I don't just do things purely for monetary reasons. I am glad my parents instilled quite different values in me.
- star_dust 5y ago
  wife: "Look(showing Instagram) Your CEO bought new Tesla Model S Plaid"
ornornor 5y ago
> generally move past them > I've job hopped too Nice double standard, lucky that your current employer didn’t apply your heuristics to you, so you could close the door behind you. Changing jobs is such a hassle, I suspect most people wouldn’t do it as often if companies were nice places to work with raises to match the market. But that’s harder to do than blame candidates and only hire those that appear to settle for less.
throwawaysleep 5y ago
I don’t like to job hop. I hate change. I hate having to learn new people. I’m the kind of person who has eaten the same breakfast since I was 13. I have 5 of the same shoe as I don’t want to have to find another new kind of pair. I like rules and consistency and knowing a system well. But if I don’t, I will end my career millions of dollars poorer. Essentially as soon as I am comfortable in an org, I have to leave unless I want to forsake a big chunk of money.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  It's such a seemingly self-contradictory view and I love that you're sharing it because it makes complete sense in the world of ill-logic in which we find ourselves. Loyalty means nothing as an employee now (and for a while) in the same way that existing customers don't get the perks that new sign-ups get. Employees are being viewed more and more the same way as customers; is this an extension of "if all you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail"? It worked for customers, which are people, why can't it work for employees since they're also people and therefore afflicted with the same psychological pressure points. It's all a calculation of the individual status: Is their leaving going to cost them more than staying for a lower-than-CPI "raise"? The "churn" cost to the company doesn't seem to be a KPI in most places. "Seat-filled = seat-filled" may be the equation, with no preceding multiplier as to the knowledge or expertise held in each seat.
  - npteljes 5y ago
    I wonder when loyalty to a company meant anything? I mean, I'm sure there are, and were companies where it did. But was it ever a norm?
    - DeathArrow 5y ago
      I think it meant something in the West long time ago. And it still means something in Japan. But to have employees giving you loyalty, you have to give them something else in return.
    - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
DeathArrow 5y ago
You move past them but there are another ten hiring managers who wouldn't, so it wouldn't make an impact on the guy sending the resume. People job hop either because the payment is not enough, either the work environment is bad. As a hiring manager, if you want to have stable teams on the long run, you just have to make them happy. Push for decent salary raises and provide them a nice environment.

Ithrowthisaway 5y ago

Normally people don't like to job hop. It is unnecessary stress. However, people have responsibilities to their families. If you are concerned of job hoppers then why don't you help them to alleviate their burden. If not, and if other companies are paying higher somewhere else, why would that person stay? That would be doing a disservice to him/her and his/her family. son: "dad, why can't we go to vacation this year?" dad: "sorry son, don't have enough money. still got bills to pay and dad's company don't give enough raise." son: "why can't you just find another job?" dad: "that's treason son, we don't do that here. think of the team morale son." son: "okay dad. i love you."

sdoering 5y ago
If someone job hops I don't recommend them for further interview rounds. Even in an agency setting were turn over is high. I don't want people like that on my team. I have one 7 months stint in my resume and that is framed by 5.5 on one side and now more than 7 years in my current job. My pay increased by >90 percent in my current job. The people I work with are really great and I couldn't in good conscience recommend someone for that team that goes out of their way to support each other that is only in it for themselves. I personally don't want hedonistic people on the team I am playing on. And a word about crafting BS emotional stories around how a family suffers because someone doesn't job hop. WTF. If one can't go on vacation because they did not receive a raise they are not acting financially responsible. Especially when having a family. Vacation imho always should come out of a play money budget. Put aside some amount of money every month for play and/or vacation. Next to money you put to the side for emergencies. Then pay the bills and still have money to spend. This is financially sound planning. If either one of these is missing people are not planning their financials good enough. At least imho. If anyone ever tells their kid that they are incapable of going on vacation because of a raise too low their kid should answer that they are sad their parents are lying to them about their financial incompetence.
- Ithrowthisaway 5y ago
  Thanks for the long reply. It seems our way of seeing things are just different, irreconciliably different. Like, fire and water different. Like, extra terrestial beings different. That being said, skipping on job hopper’s resume actually brings positive on both sides. We avoid wasting each others’ time. You are doing the right thing. Actually, real life is way way more cruel than the 5 line dialogue that I described above. You don't know what people struggle in their life. Maybe, hmmm, just maybe, they are supporting a few older generation women in their family that are all divorced and no longer can work? Just maybe, hmm... Maybe, just maybe, that person has an aspiration of doing better for the world instead of chasing compensation, but limited by his/her circumstances, so he/she has to do leetcode + jumping ships all the time, just maybe. Reality is brutal, cruel. Some people have so much, yet some people have so little.
  - sdoering 5y ago
    I value other personality traits and people scoring differently on the big five. Especially agreeableness. I experienced them providing a better and more long term productive team setup. So I pass on candidates that (on average and I might miss out on great people once in a while) tend to value short term personal gains. In the end it is a question of how (better in which direction) one tries to influence the environment one is in. And I decided to take an approach geared towards longevity and sustainability of the team environment.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  > My pay increased by >90 percent in my current job. I've increased my comp by 250% over 8 years vs your ~90% in 7 years. That's what you're missing out on.
  - sdoering 5y ago
    I see I wasn't able to make my point. I don't just do things purely for monetary reasons. I am glad my parents instilled quite different values in me.
star_dust 5y ago
wife: "Look(showing Instagram) Your CEO bought new Tesla Model S Plaid"

ornornor 5y ago

> generally move past them > I've job hopped too Nice double standard, lucky that your current employer didn’t apply your heuristics to you, so you could close the door behind you. Changing jobs is such a hassle, I suspect most people wouldn’t do it as often if companies were nice places to work with raises to match the market. But that’s harder to do than blame candidates and only hire those that appear to settle for less.

throwawaysleep 5y ago

I don’t like to job hop. I hate change. I hate having to learn new people. I’m the kind of person who has eaten the same breakfast since I was 13. I have 5 of the same shoe as I don’t want to have to find another new kind of pair. I like rules and consistency and knowing a system well. But if I don’t, I will end my career millions of dollars poorer. Essentially as soon as I am comfortable in an org, I have to leave unless I want to forsake a big chunk of money.

BLKNSLVR 5y ago
It's such a seemingly self-contradictory view and I love that you're sharing it because it makes complete sense in the world of ill-logic in which we find ourselves. Loyalty means nothing as an employee now (and for a while) in the same way that existing customers don't get the perks that new sign-ups get. Employees are being viewed more and more the same way as customers; is this an extension of "if all you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail"? It worked for customers, which are people, why can't it work for employees since they're also people and therefore afflicted with the same psychological pressure points. It's all a calculation of the individual status: Is their leaving going to cost them more than staying for a lower-than-CPI "raise"? The "churn" cost to the company doesn't seem to be a KPI in most places. "Seat-filled = seat-filled" may be the equation, with no preceding multiplier as to the knowledge or expertise held in each seat.
- npteljes 5y ago
  I wonder when loyalty to a company meant anything? I mean, I'm sure there are, and were companies where it did. But was it ever a norm?
  - DeathArrow 5y ago
    I think it meant something in the West long time ago. And it still means something in Japan. But to have employees giving you loyalty, you have to give them something else in return.
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago

DeathArrow 5y ago

You move past them but there are another ten hiring managers who wouldn't, so it wouldn't make an impact on the guy sending the resume. People job hop either because the payment is not enough, either the work environment is bad. As a hiring manager, if you want to have stable teams on the long run, you just have to make them happy. Push for decent salary raises and provide them a nice environment.