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I don't think there's any issue monetizing a chronological timeline. The issue for them I imagine is retention: with chronological, it's likely that when you v

I don't think there's any issue monetizing a chronological timeline. The issue for them I imagine is retention: with chronological, it's likely that when you visit Twitter the first few messages you see are not interesting and you leave. But if they put a tweet that's popular among your social group in front of you? Odds are that's interesting to you and you stick around a bit longer. I dislike that, to be clear, but I imagine this is the human behavior for >90% of people.

eatsyourtacos 5y ago
Which is what pissed me off the most about TikTok for the brief period I used it. They would just show me random shit basically irregardless of date.. and that's not at all what I wanted. I found it to be an new source- of sorts. I'm not saying a good one, but at least it was somewhat interesting to may see peoples perspective on some topic. But what I found is it would just show me stuff that could be months old, days old etc instead of prioritizing like.. top day things. I haven't used it during the russia/ukraine time.. but I can't imagine how wildly inaccurate of a picture you would get if you are viewing stuff completely out of date order. Yeah they put the date on the video.. but that doesn't really help, everything is still all over the place. For all Reddit's faults- I can at least go there, take a look at some of the top headlines in some subreddits.. and know if I see something it's recent unless I am looking otherwise.
anonymoushn 5y ago
Hotels can try boosting user retention, as measured by minutes spent in the room, by hiding guests' belongings while they are away.
- Pmop 5y ago
  This is funny but on a side note, isn't this exactly what some casinos and some malls/stores do? I once spent one hour in a duty free mall because it was like a maze and I couldn't find the exit.
- wodenokoto 5y ago
  That's pretty much the thinking behind layouts of malls and grocery stores. Grocery stores put common items like milk way in the back, in order to have you traverse the whole store and get exposed to as many meters of shelf as possible. They generally also like to change placement of product, to make sure you don't learn the layout and get too efficient at navigating. Malls try to balance enabling people to find what they are looking for, but also make sure they don't find it too easily so that people can wonder about and be exposed to as many stores as possible. If you enter the Dubai Mall from the metro, there's a big sign that points to the left and says "Food Court". You'd get to the food court much faster if you turn right.
  - raverbashing 5y ago
    I wonder how much of this is an urban legend There's a reason why refrigerated items are usually at the back: fridges usually face a wall. You can have a shelf at the back sometimes but that's not always possible Also, for those quick purchases you can always go to somewhere closer, a gas station, etc. In fact in Europe some places do have the quick purchases right in front of the store so you don't need to go around (Tesco as an example).
    - rrradical 5y ago
      Nah, I saw this on my last shopping trip to a mega grocery. Bought basically all the items on my list on the right side of the store (produce, other food stuffs) and then had to walk past a half dozen aisles filled with random crap (non food) to get eggs from the dairy section.
      - Handytinge 5y ago
        Conversely at my local supermarket (major chain), the milk, meat, fruit and veg are all near the front of the store and easily accessible. Also, why would your eggs be in the dairy section?
    - sagonar 5y ago
      I think store documentation from the 'food store franchise' have been publicly shared in Sweden and had instructions on how you should place the milk.
- zarzavat 5y ago
  Hotels don’t make money if you stay in the room, it actually costs them money in terms of electricity. But they do want you to spend money so they might indeed do things such as banning outside food deliveries or making the basin un-pluggable so that you can’t do your own laundry. There was a case a few years ago where a Marriott got fined for blocking outside wifi. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/03/marriott-fined-wi-fi-nashville-hotel https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/03/marriott-fin...
  - Lascaille 5y ago
    >Hotels don’t make money if you stay in the room, it actually costs them money in terms of electricity. No, them renting the room to you - when you'll usually be out of it most of the day - is absolutely how they make money. Maybe in Las Vegas the room rate is a loss leader but your average business hotel is 100% making their profit on the room.
    - zarzavat 5y ago
      What I mean is the hotel doesn’t make more money if you stay inside the room, which was GP’s premise that they would want to entice guests into spending more hours in the room. They would prefer that guests leave the room and go to the bar or restaurant for instance.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - daniel-cussen 5y ago
      That's my kind of hotel, just a business that makes their money on exactly what the fuck it looks like they're making the money on. I once stayed at a place that had super, super cheap refreshment rates on the mini-fridge. Cheaper if you got them at a store obviously, but not punishing like most other hotels, less than double the supermarket rate. Guess what? I made them tons of money, it was super convenient, I didn't go out of my way to avoid them.
ankit219 5y ago
With reverse chronological timeline, it's harder to build a advertising profile. While it's important to know what tweets a user is interacting with, the personalization option can surface more things as "You might like", "You follow x, and he liked", "Interesting tweet on the topics you follow/might like" and so on. Whether or not you choose to interact with anyone or more of those is a signal, and helps with advertising (if advertising is a question of "What tweet/content you are likely to interact with?"). Other than brands, most twitter influencers, or would-be influencers end up spending money on twitter ads to gain followers. With a reverse chronological timeline, it's hard to surface those tweets from outside the network without a jarring experience. They also realize the power of defaults and hence they decided to take away the default option.
- wpietri 5y ago
  I agree that's a possible reason. But I don't think it's specifically necessary for Twitter, especially the sort of power user who wants a chronological timeline. Whether or not they show topic data for a particular tweet, they generally have it. I only use the chronological timeline, and I cleared out the interests list a year or two back, but they have built up a profile of hundreds of interests for me. I suspect forcing the ranked timeline on people is all about a small portion of Twitter juicing their engagement metrics, with no grand cross-team strategy in play.
- clhodapp 5y ago
  As a side-note: a good test of when social networks turn the corner and become evil is when they start conflating liking and sharing by implementing the "You follow x, and he liked" feature that you described. Since this clearly violates the user's intention (if you wanted to share something, you would have shared it), this serves as a subtle but distinct signal that manipulating users has become more important than listening to them.
  - oblio 5y ago
    > a good test of when social networks turn the corner and become evil is ... when they are created. Social networks are inherently evil, that's their business model: manipulate users into addiction and serve ads. How do non-evil social networks look like? They're forums, plain old forums. But you don't become an ultra trillionaire with PhpBB.
askura 5y ago
It's also because there's power in being able to influence when people see something. It's harder to spot when that occurs when your timeline isn't chronological.

eatsyourtacos 5y ago

Which is what pissed me off the most about TikTok for the brief period I used it. They would just show me random shit basically irregardless of date.. and that's not at all what I wanted. I found it to be an new source- of sorts. I'm not saying a good one, but at least it was somewhat interesting to may see peoples perspective on some topic. But what I found is it would just show me stuff that could be months old, days old etc instead of prioritizing like.. top day things. I haven't used it during the russia/ukraine time.. but I can't imagine how wildly inaccurate of a picture you would get if you are viewing stuff completely out of date order. Yeah they put the date on the video.. but that doesn't really help, everything is still all over the place. For all Reddit's faults- I can at least go there, take a look at some of the top headlines in some subreddits.. and know if I see something it's recent unless I am looking otherwise.

anonymoushn 5y ago

Hotels can try boosting user retention, as measured by minutes spent in the room, by hiding guests' belongings while they are away.

Pmop 5y ago
This is funny but on a side note, isn't this exactly what some casinos and some malls/stores do? I once spent one hour in a duty free mall because it was like a maze and I couldn't find the exit.
wodenokoto 5y ago
That's pretty much the thinking behind layouts of malls and grocery stores. Grocery stores put common items like milk way in the back, in order to have you traverse the whole store and get exposed to as many meters of shelf as possible. They generally also like to change placement of product, to make sure you don't learn the layout and get too efficient at navigating. Malls try to balance enabling people to find what they are looking for, but also make sure they don't find it too easily so that people can wonder about and be exposed to as many stores as possible. If you enter the Dubai Mall from the metro, there's a big sign that points to the left and says "Food Court". You'd get to the food court much faster if you turn right.
- raverbashing 5y ago
  I wonder how much of this is an urban legend There's a reason why refrigerated items are usually at the back: fridges usually face a wall. You can have a shelf at the back sometimes but that's not always possible Also, for those quick purchases you can always go to somewhere closer, a gas station, etc. In fact in Europe some places do have the quick purchases right in front of the store so you don't need to go around (Tesco as an example).
  - rrradical 5y ago
    Nah, I saw this on my last shopping trip to a mega grocery. Bought basically all the items on my list on the right side of the store (produce, other food stuffs) and then had to walk past a half dozen aisles filled with random crap (non food) to get eggs from the dairy section.
    - Handytinge 5y ago
      Conversely at my local supermarket (major chain), the milk, meat, fruit and veg are all near the front of the store and easily accessible. Also, why would your eggs be in the dairy section?
  - sagonar 5y ago
    I think store documentation from the 'food store franchise' have been publicly shared in Sweden and had instructions on how you should place the milk.
zarzavat 5y ago
Hotels don’t make money if you stay in the room, it actually costs them money in terms of electricity. But they do want you to spend money so they might indeed do things such as banning outside food deliveries or making the basin un-pluggable so that you can’t do your own laundry. There was a case a few years ago where a Marriott got fined for blocking outside wifi. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/03/marriott-fined-wi-fi-nashville-hotel https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/03/marriott-fin...
- Lascaille 5y ago
  >Hotels don’t make money if you stay in the room, it actually costs them money in terms of electricity. No, them renting the room to you - when you'll usually be out of it most of the day - is absolutely how they make money. Maybe in Las Vegas the room rate is a loss leader but your average business hotel is 100% making their profit on the room.
  - zarzavat 5y ago
    What I mean is the hotel doesn’t make more money if you stay inside the room, which was GP’s premise that they would want to entice guests into spending more hours in the room. They would prefer that guests leave the room and go to the bar or restaurant for instance.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - daniel-cussen 5y ago
    That's my kind of hotel, just a business that makes their money on exactly what the fuck it looks like they're making the money on. I once stayed at a place that had super, super cheap refreshment rates on the mini-fridge. Cheaper if you got them at a store obviously, but not punishing like most other hotels, less than double the supermarket rate. Guess what? I made them tons of money, it was super convenient, I didn't go out of my way to avoid them.

ankit219 5y ago

With reverse chronological timeline, it's harder to build a advertising profile. While it's important to know what tweets a user is interacting with, the personalization option can surface more things as "You might like", "You follow x, and he liked", "Interesting tweet on the topics you follow/might like" and so on. Whether or not you choose to interact with anyone or more of those is a signal, and helps with advertising (if advertising is a question of "What tweet/content you are likely to interact with?"). Other than brands, most twitter influencers, or would-be influencers end up spending money on twitter ads to gain followers. With a reverse chronological timeline, it's hard to surface those tweets from outside the network without a jarring experience. They also realize the power of defaults and hence they decided to take away the default option.

wpietri 5y ago
I agree that's a possible reason. But I don't think it's specifically necessary for Twitter, especially the sort of power user who wants a chronological timeline. Whether or not they show topic data for a particular tweet, they generally have it. I only use the chronological timeline, and I cleared out the interests list a year or two back, but they have built up a profile of hundreds of interests for me. I suspect forcing the ranked timeline on people is all about a small portion of Twitter juicing their engagement metrics, with no grand cross-team strategy in play.
clhodapp 5y ago
As a side-note: a good test of when social networks turn the corner and become evil is when they start conflating liking and sharing by implementing the "You follow x, and he liked" feature that you described. Since this clearly violates the user's intention (if you wanted to share something, you would have shared it), this serves as a subtle but distinct signal that manipulating users has become more important than listening to them.
- oblio 5y ago
  > a good test of when social networks turn the corner and become evil is ... when they are created. Social networks are inherently evil, that's their business model: manipulate users into addiction and serve ads. How do non-evil social networks look like? They're forums, plain old forums. But you don't become an ultra trillionaire with PhpBB.

askura 5y ago

It's also because there's power in being able to influence when people see something. It's harder to spot when that occurs when your timeline isn't chronological.