6 ms·

Subscriptions have become such a massive consumer pox over the past few years. It's the new de facto way to scam people out of far more value than you provide.

ghaff 5y ago
And yet streaming music services have largely replaced simply buying music. (Ditto for video.) So YMMV.
- pvarangot 5y ago
  Subscriptions for streaming, for news or data feeds and for software are three different things. Streaming is basically giving me access to whatever music I want from their catalog whenever I want. I know what I will be getting and I'll get it when I want it. For news of for software it's more like paying a subscription and I have no idea if they will keep on giving me reliable useful news and improving their software or not. It used to be that I payed for the software if I liked it, and when they make a new release they have to get me to pay for it again if I want the bug fixes or new features. With news it used to be that I could just stop buying or reading whenever I wanted and I didn't have to navigate anti-patterns to save my money. As a consumer I'm happy paying for streaming services but I feel I'm being held captive by software that makes me pay for a subscription. I'm constantly looking for an alternative to the latter and when I find it I cancel immediately.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I'm fine with software subscriptions if I'm a regular/heavy user. The problem is if it's an occasional thing that I need to access data/do a very sometimes task.
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    It seems pretty clear at this point that subscription pricing just works better for software. If you go through the old model, sales/customer acquisition never ends. You constantly have to convince previous customers to repurchase. While if you go down the subscription path, you acquire the customer once and then simply have to continue to provide value to keep them. I think in the end the user probably gets a better deal as well since the software ends up being much better and they always have the latest features. When you are a power user the value is undeniable. Things like Github/Gitlab, Office, Photoshop, etc provide way more value than their subscription cost. Where I think its at its worst is for things you hardly use. I don't want to pay a subscription fee for an app I use once a month.
    - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
      > You constantly have to convince previous customers to repurchase. This is a good thing. It forces businesses to earn their revenue, not just rent seek. > I think in the end the user probably gets a better deal as well since the software ends up being much better and they always have the latest features. Completely disagree. Rent-seekers have no reason to improve their products because their users have to pay even if they do nothing.
      - Gigachad 5y ago
        You can't just sit around doing nothing and expect to keep customers. Competitors will catch up and beat your offering. What subscriptions mean is more money spent on development and customer support, less money spent on advertising and sales teams. Because the real money is in continually making the customer feel they are getting good value.
        ocdtrekkie 5y ago
        I can't say this is true of any subscription I have ever had.
sharpy 5y ago
Sometimes, it works if you set your VPN to a server in California, because of a law requiring services to offer a means to cancel it online, if the customer signed up online. [1] Also whenever I have the option to do so, I sign up for subscriptions with PayPal. It's super easy to cancel recurring subscriptions on PayPal. [1] https://www.consumerprotectionreview.com/2021/11/california-passes-updated-automatic-renewal-law/#:~:text=Under%20the%20amended%20law%2C%20users,terms%20one%20year%20or%20longer https://www.consumerprotectionreview.com/2021/11/california-....
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  Do you actually get a different web interface with a cancel option if you signed up using a California VPN? I find that really hard to imagine.
- JadeNB 5y ago
  > Also whenever I have the option to do so, I sign up for subscriptions with PayPal. It's super easy to cancel recurring subscriptions on PayPal. Is this like with expiring credit cards, where you just let it lapse (which it's my understanding does not automatically get you off the hook—you just hope it's not worth the company's time to pursue you), or is there actually a mechanism automatically provided through PayPal to cancel subscriptions?
  - koofdoof 5y ago
    At least in the US the expiring credit card method actually no longer works. It was changed a few years back to automatically roll subscriptions over to the replacement card. I cant imagine how many people got tricked into keeping on subscriptions when that was silently changed.
    - lyrrad 5y ago
      Some US credit card providers provide virtual account numbers, allowing you to obtain separate/unique card numbers tied to a specific credit card, and can have short expirations, or be revoked early. There are also some services that provide these virtual cards tied to debit cards or bank accounts. I haven't tried these types of services since I prefer the protection of credit cards, which often offer significant points or cash back rewards.
lukeholder 5y ago
This is why I try to move all my subscriptions inside of apples app store management system. Easy management of subscriptions in a central location. One click unsubscribe. I would love a central 3rd party service that could manage subscriptions across the web - ping me if you want to build it with me.

ghaff 5y ago

And yet streaming music services have largely replaced simply buying music. (Ditto for video.) So YMMV.

pvarangot 5y ago
Subscriptions for streaming, for news or data feeds and for software are three different things. Streaming is basically giving me access to whatever music I want from their catalog whenever I want. I know what I will be getting and I'll get it when I want it. For news of for software it's more like paying a subscription and I have no idea if they will keep on giving me reliable useful news and improving their software or not. It used to be that I payed for the software if I liked it, and when they make a new release they have to get me to pay for it again if I want the bug fixes or new features. With news it used to be that I could just stop buying or reading whenever I wanted and I didn't have to navigate anti-patterns to save my money. As a consumer I'm happy paying for streaming services but I feel I'm being held captive by software that makes me pay for a subscription. I'm constantly looking for an alternative to the latter and when I find it I cancel immediately.
- ghaff 5y ago
  I'm fine with software subscriptions if I'm a regular/heavy user. The problem is if it's an occasional thing that I need to access data/do a very sometimes task.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  It seems pretty clear at this point that subscription pricing just works better for software. If you go through the old model, sales/customer acquisition never ends. You constantly have to convince previous customers to repurchase. While if you go down the subscription path, you acquire the customer once and then simply have to continue to provide value to keep them. I think in the end the user probably gets a better deal as well since the software ends up being much better and they always have the latest features. When you are a power user the value is undeniable. Things like Github/Gitlab, Office, Photoshop, etc provide way more value than their subscription cost. Where I think its at its worst is for things you hardly use. I don't want to pay a subscription fee for an app I use once a month.
  - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
    > You constantly have to convince previous customers to repurchase. This is a good thing. It forces businesses to earn their revenue, not just rent seek. > I think in the end the user probably gets a better deal as well since the software ends up being much better and they always have the latest features. Completely disagree. Rent-seekers have no reason to improve their products because their users have to pay even if they do nothing.
    - Gigachad 5y ago
      You can't just sit around doing nothing and expect to keep customers. Competitors will catch up and beat your offering. What subscriptions mean is more money spent on development and customer support, less money spent on advertising and sales teams. Because the real money is in continually making the customer feel they are getting good value.
      - ocdtrekkie 5y ago
        I can't say this is true of any subscription I have ever had.

sharpy 5y ago

Sometimes, it works if you set your VPN to a server in California, because of a law requiring services to offer a means to cancel it online, if the customer signed up online. [1] Also whenever I have the option to do so, I sign up for subscriptions with PayPal. It's super easy to cancel recurring subscriptions on PayPal. [1] https://www.consumerprotectionreview.com/2021/11/california-passes-updated-automatic-renewal-law/#:~:text=Under%20the%20amended%20law%2C%20users,terms%20one%20year%20or%20longer https://www.consumerprotectionreview.com/2021/11/california-....

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
Do you actually get a different web interface with a cancel option if you signed up using a California VPN? I find that really hard to imagine.
JadeNB 5y ago
> Also whenever I have the option to do so, I sign up for subscriptions with PayPal. It's super easy to cancel recurring subscriptions on PayPal. Is this like with expiring credit cards, where you just let it lapse (which it's my understanding does not automatically get you off the hook—you just hope it's not worth the company's time to pursue you), or is there actually a mechanism automatically provided through PayPal to cancel subscriptions?
- koofdoof 5y ago
  At least in the US the expiring credit card method actually no longer works. It was changed a few years back to automatically roll subscriptions over to the replacement card. I cant imagine how many people got tricked into keeping on subscriptions when that was silently changed.
  - lyrrad 5y ago
    Some US credit card providers provide virtual account numbers, allowing you to obtain separate/unique card numbers tied to a specific credit card, and can have short expirations, or be revoked early. There are also some services that provide these virtual cards tied to debit cards or bank accounts. I haven't tried these types of services since I prefer the protection of credit cards, which often offer significant points or cash back rewards.

lukeholder 5y ago

This is why I try to move all my subscriptions inside of apples app store management system. Easy management of subscriptions in a central location. One click unsubscribe. I would love a central 3rd party service that could manage subscriptions across the web - ping me if you want to build it with me.