4 ms·

> it is by many considered to be "great design" (an Alfa Giulietta QV). Is it? Lol, they're about the only new cars selling for under MSRP around here these d

> it is by many considered to be "great design" (an Alfa Giulietta QV). Is it? Lol, they're about the only new cars selling for under MSRP around here these days. I was drooling over a beautiful white 1967 Duetto spider the other day though. What a pretty old thing that is, and sounds so nice too.

BobbyJo 5y ago
Alfa's are probably selling under MSRP because of reliability, not looks. They are definitely pretty cars, they are just also very Italian.
- yelling_cat 5y ago
  I like fast sedans and find the Giulia to be one of the few really attractive cars sold these days, so when the high-end Quadrifoglio version came to the States I put my misgivings about Alfas aside long enough to strongly consider one as my last ICE car. I came to my senses after at least two of the prominent reviews at release described going through multiple vehicles as their initial review cars died. Car and Driver's 40,000-Mile Wrap-Up of their experience with the car (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23145269/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-reliability-update/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23145269/alfa-romeo-gi...) said the QF "broke their heart" and lists a litany of issues, with the car out of commission for 80 days out of the 14 months they spent with it. They did say the car's an absolute blast to drive when it actually works, at least.
- bborud 5y ago
  Modern Alfas are about as reliable as german cars these days, so reliability issues are more myth than fact. That being said, German cars aren't as reliable as Japanese cars. The real problem isn't reliability but shitty dealer networks. Alfa have a knack for finding dealership networks that think it's great fun to have them in the showroom to pull people in, but aren't terribly interested in selling them or doing a good job servicing them. My tip is to never use the dealership for servicing your vehicles (of any brand). Find a garage that has competent people, and who have respect for the work, and then pick whatever cars they are competent to work on. You don't want to spend a lot of money on a car only to have a bunch of underpaid teenagers who can only follow a manual work on your car.
  - byw 5y ago
    The perception of reliability still has an affect on price and depreciation. So maybe it's a good idea to buy them used. Another complaint I've heard of Alfas is ergonomics sacrificed for looks, which is kind of a deal breaker for me.
    - bborud 5y ago
      That's probably true. Except lately. Good luck finding a cheap 4C or Giulia QV here. The ergonomics: guilty as charged. Alfas are built for people who have the anatomy of an orangutan. I am not kidding. You need short legs and freakishly long arms to be comfortable. But I don't mind :)
  - petre 5y ago
    > Modern Alfas are about as reliable as german cars I've just read the other day that BMW is recalling 1M+ vehicles on the US market because of engine fire issues. What? Last weekend we went on a trip and what do you know, smoke coming out of the hood of a burning BMW X3 on the other side of the road, fire brigade etc. When we returned we saw it reduced to a pile of burned down chasis. A woman from a neighbouring office bought a brand new BMW X6 (the butt ugly ones). She had to take it back to the dealership because the engine would overheat.
    - hulitu 5y ago
      They (BMW drivers) can always drive their cars like normal people, not smashing the foot on the gas pedal.
  - hulitu 5y ago
    Not using the dealership to service your car requires that you have a lot of time. " Sir, x is broken, it takes 2 days to get it from the dealer".
    - bborud 5y ago
      I've done this for 20 years now and part delivery times are identical to dealer network here. They also tend to offer you more choices when it comes to parts (cheap, standard, upgraded etc).
bborud 5y ago
The Duetto is the Spider's pretty little sister. It is unreasonably beautiful for something that you used to be able to buy for not a lot of money.
- technothrasher 5y ago
  I grew up with the Kamm tail cars (and later the ugly rubber duck tails), but always preferred the Roundtail cars as the perfect expression of that body. You're right, you used to be able to buy them relatively cheap (although the Alfas were always just a bit more than the Fiats, MGs, Triumphs, Datsuns, etc), but now they're getting pricey. One just sold on BaT for $97K! Though you can still find ok runners in the $20K's. The owner of this white '67 wanted $30K, too rich for my blood. But I had fun helping to diagnose a carb leak and rotor phasing issue with it. Old Italian cars are like boats, most fun when playing with somebody else's. Besides, I've got a Porsche 951 that more than keeps me on my toes.
aserdf 5y ago
The Giulietta isn’t sold in the US (your other comment indicates region).
- technothrasher 5y ago
  No, you're correct. I meant Alfas in general here are selling below MSRP, not that particular model. Hot hatches don't sell nearly as well here as they do in Europe.
  - bborud 5y ago
    That's something I've never understood: why do hot hatches not sell in the US?
  - aserdf 5y ago
    Ah gotcha. And yes you’re correct on that, Alfa’s re-entry into the US market has been such a mess, if I had to guess their only buyers are enthusiasts who know the brand and appreciate the tech or people who want something that isn’t BMW/Audi/Merc but still has some visual appeal. I hope they survive as one of the few remaining enthusiast brands, would be a shame for them to follow in FIATs footsteps.

BobbyJo 5y ago

Alfa's are probably selling under MSRP because of reliability, not looks. They are definitely pretty cars, they are just also very Italian.

yelling_cat 5y ago
I like fast sedans and find the Giulia to be one of the few really attractive cars sold these days, so when the high-end Quadrifoglio version came to the States I put my misgivings about Alfas aside long enough to strongly consider one as my last ICE car. I came to my senses after at least two of the prominent reviews at release described going through multiple vehicles as their initial review cars died. Car and Driver's 40,000-Mile Wrap-Up of their experience with the car (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23145269/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-reliability-update/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23145269/alfa-romeo-gi...) said the QF "broke their heart" and lists a litany of issues, with the car out of commission for 80 days out of the 14 months they spent with it. They did say the car's an absolute blast to drive when it actually works, at least.
bborud 5y ago
Modern Alfas are about as reliable as german cars these days, so reliability issues are more myth than fact. That being said, German cars aren't as reliable as Japanese cars. The real problem isn't reliability but shitty dealer networks. Alfa have a knack for finding dealership networks that think it's great fun to have them in the showroom to pull people in, but aren't terribly interested in selling them or doing a good job servicing them. My tip is to never use the dealership for servicing your vehicles (of any brand). Find a garage that has competent people, and who have respect for the work, and then pick whatever cars they are competent to work on. You don't want to spend a lot of money on a car only to have a bunch of underpaid teenagers who can only follow a manual work on your car.
- byw 5y ago
  The perception of reliability still has an affect on price and depreciation. So maybe it's a good idea to buy them used. Another complaint I've heard of Alfas is ergonomics sacrificed for looks, which is kind of a deal breaker for me.
  - bborud 5y ago
    That's probably true. Except lately. Good luck finding a cheap 4C or Giulia QV here. The ergonomics: guilty as charged. Alfas are built for people who have the anatomy of an orangutan. I am not kidding. You need short legs and freakishly long arms to be comfortable. But I don't mind :)
- petre 5y ago
  > Modern Alfas are about as reliable as german cars I've just read the other day that BMW is recalling 1M+ vehicles on the US market because of engine fire issues. What? Last weekend we went on a trip and what do you know, smoke coming out of the hood of a burning BMW X3 on the other side of the road, fire brigade etc. When we returned we saw it reduced to a pile of burned down chasis. A woman from a neighbouring office bought a brand new BMW X6 (the butt ugly ones). She had to take it back to the dealership because the engine would overheat.
  - hulitu 5y ago
    They (BMW drivers) can always drive their cars like normal people, not smashing the foot on the gas pedal.
- hulitu 5y ago
  Not using the dealership to service your car requires that you have a lot of time. " Sir, x is broken, it takes 2 days to get it from the dealer".
  - bborud 5y ago
    I've done this for 20 years now and part delivery times are identical to dealer network here. They also tend to offer you more choices when it comes to parts (cheap, standard, upgraded etc).

bborud 5y ago

The Duetto is the Spider's pretty little sister. It is unreasonably beautiful for something that you used to be able to buy for not a lot of money.

technothrasher 5y ago
I grew up with the Kamm tail cars (and later the ugly rubber duck tails), but always preferred the Roundtail cars as the perfect expression of that body. You're right, you used to be able to buy them relatively cheap (although the Alfas were always just a bit more than the Fiats, MGs, Triumphs, Datsuns, etc), but now they're getting pricey. One just sold on BaT for $97K! Though you can still find ok runners in the $20K's. The owner of this white '67 wanted $30K, too rich for my blood. But I had fun helping to diagnose a carb leak and rotor phasing issue with it. Old Italian cars are like boats, most fun when playing with somebody else's. Besides, I've got a Porsche 951 that more than keeps me on my toes.

aserdf 5y ago

The Giulietta isn’t sold in the US (your other comment indicates region).

technothrasher 5y ago
No, you're correct. I meant Alfas in general here are selling below MSRP, not that particular model. Hot hatches don't sell nearly as well here as they do in Europe.
- bborud 5y ago
  That's something I've never understood: why do hot hatches not sell in the US?
- aserdf 5y ago
  Ah gotcha. And yes you’re correct on that, Alfa’s re-entry into the US market has been such a mess, if I had to guess their only buyers are enthusiasts who know the brand and appreciate the tech or people who want something that isn’t BMW/Audi/Merc but still has some visual appeal. I hope they survive as one of the few remaining enthusiast brands, would be a shame for them to follow in FIATs footsteps.