4 ms·

There's a way to make your point without being rude and infantilizing.

Spivak 5y ago
I think that interpretation is more on you than anything -- "sweet summer child" is not literally referring to a child but someone whose innocence or blissful ignorance hasn't been ruined by the can of worms they just opened.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  It means those things precisely because the person is a child. In A Song of Ice and Fire winter can last over a decade hence "summer child", a young one that has never experienced the hardship of winter https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sweet_summer_child https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sweet_summer_child Regardless, starting out with any variation of "you're blissfully ignorant" isn't needed either. I get offense usually isn't intended but the use of that phrase has always stuck me as a very condescending way to respond.
  - 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
    > I get offense usually isn't intended but the use of that phrase has always stuck me as a very condescending way to respond. You recognize it's not meant to be offensive, but you want to treat it as offensive? Wouldn't it feel better to assume good faith and not treat it as offensive? The same phrase spoken from one individual to another can be interpreted as offensive or not. Tom might say "Fuck you!" to Bill, but Bill is best friends with Tom and knows he's kidding, and laughs. If they didn't know each other, Bill would get offended. But either way it's just words. Tom's intended meaning doesn't change despite what Bill wants to assume the meaning was. It's up to us to decide to get offended or not.
  - evan_ 5y ago
    that definition misplaces the origin of the phrase, "sweet summer's child" has been in use since the mid-19th century or earlier: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mGQSAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mGQSAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA52#v=o...
    - zamadatix 5y ago
      It may not be the first time the combination of words was ever written but it's certainly the first time it caught on and based on the timings where it caught on from (book then show) https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=sweet+summer+child%2Csweet+summers+child%2C+sweet+summer%27s+child&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=0&direct_url=t1%3B%2Csweet%20summer%20child%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=sweet+summer+c...
      - evan_ 5y ago
        Here's that search without "Sweet": https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=summer+child%2C+summer%27s+child&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=0&direct_url=t1%3B%2Csummer%20child%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Csummer%20%27s%20child%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=summer+child%2...
      - cinntaile 5y ago
        It is simply a common phrase to refer to a naive and innocent person, it has nothing to do with Game of Thrones. Although I like how he used it, it immediately makes its meaning clear.
  - stavros 5y ago
    As a counterpoint, I take the phrase as a funny way of saying "you lucky person". I definitely see how it can come off as condescending, I just find the reference obscure enough that it's more funny than offensive to me.
- yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
  Even if that were so, it strikes me as odd to characterise the author — one of the world's more accomplished software professionals — as blissfully ignorant.
benmmurphy 5y ago
I can't resist a rhetorical flourish :) The situation between defenders of the API and users of the API is extremely weird. If you were an alien from another planet and witnessed what was going on you would be shocked. People are being paid to prevent people from accessing an API and people are being paid to defeat these countermeasures. This is similar to people being paid to dig holes and other people are being paid to fill in the holes. I think the aliens would conclude there is something wrong with the economic system. I don't know what the solution is but seeing as I'm a digger I really don't want rock the boat :)
- octoberfranklin 5y ago
  > there is something wrong with the economic system. ... I'm a digger I really don't want rock the boat My advice, based on experience: when you find yourself in this situation immediately start looking for a way off the boat. Urgently. It is rare for people on the boat to notice this before it sinks, and those few who do always seem to overestimate the supply of lifeboats.
- nl 5y ago
  > People are being paid to prevent people from accessing an API and people are being paid to defeat these countermeasures. This is similar to people being paid to dig holes and other people are being paid to fill in the holes Let me tell you about this little thing called tax accountants and the IRS... > I think the aliens would conclude there is something wrong with the economic system. These aliens are unfamiliar with adversarial systems? Reminds me a a SciFi short story I read once where some aliens came to earth. Everyone thought they were amazingly smart, but it turned out they had just been working on their tech for a lot longer and were very dumb. The protagonist in the story figured this out, and sold them the Brooklyn Bridge...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

I think that interpretation is more on you than anything -- "sweet summer child" is not literally referring to a child but someone whose innocence or blissful ignorance hasn't been ruined by the can of worms they just opened.

zamadatix 5y ago
It means those things precisely because the person is a child. In A Song of Ice and Fire winter can last over a decade hence "summer child", a young one that has never experienced the hardship of winter https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sweet_summer_child https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sweet_summer_child Regardless, starting out with any variation of "you're blissfully ignorant" isn't needed either. I get offense usually isn't intended but the use of that phrase has always stuck me as a very condescending way to respond.
- 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
  > I get offense usually isn't intended but the use of that phrase has always stuck me as a very condescending way to respond. You recognize it's not meant to be offensive, but you want to treat it as offensive? Wouldn't it feel better to assume good faith and not treat it as offensive? The same phrase spoken from one individual to another can be interpreted as offensive or not. Tom might say "Fuck you!" to Bill, but Bill is best friends with Tom and knows he's kidding, and laughs. If they didn't know each other, Bill would get offended. But either way it's just words. Tom's intended meaning doesn't change despite what Bill wants to assume the meaning was. It's up to us to decide to get offended or not.
- evan_ 5y ago
  that definition misplaces the origin of the phrase, "sweet summer's child" has been in use since the mid-19th century or earlier: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mGQSAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mGQSAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA52#v=o...
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    It may not be the first time the combination of words was ever written but it's certainly the first time it caught on and based on the timings where it caught on from (book then show) https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=sweet+summer+child%2Csweet+summers+child%2C+sweet+summer%27s+child&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=0&direct_url=t1%3B%2Csweet%20summer%20child%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=sweet+summer+c...
    - evan_ 5y ago
      Here's that search without "Sweet": https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=summer+child%2C+summer%27s+child&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=0&direct_url=t1%3B%2Csummer%20child%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Csummer%20%27s%20child%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=summer+child%2...
    - cinntaile 5y ago
      It is simply a common phrase to refer to a naive and innocent person, it has nothing to do with Game of Thrones. Although I like how he used it, it immediately makes its meaning clear.
- stavros 5y ago
  As a counterpoint, I take the phrase as a funny way of saying "you lucky person". I definitely see how it can come off as condescending, I just find the reference obscure enough that it's more funny than offensive to me.
yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
Even if that were so, it strikes me as odd to characterise the author — one of the world's more accomplished software professionals — as blissfully ignorant.

benmmurphy 5y ago

I can't resist a rhetorical flourish :) The situation between defenders of the API and users of the API is extremely weird. If you were an alien from another planet and witnessed what was going on you would be shocked. People are being paid to prevent people from accessing an API and people are being paid to defeat these countermeasures. This is similar to people being paid to dig holes and other people are being paid to fill in the holes. I think the aliens would conclude there is something wrong with the economic system. I don't know what the solution is but seeing as I'm a digger I really don't want rock the boat :)

octoberfranklin 5y ago
> there is something wrong with the economic system. ... I'm a digger I really don't want rock the boat My advice, based on experience: when you find yourself in this situation immediately start looking for a way off the boat. Urgently. It is rare for people on the boat to notice this before it sinks, and those few who do always seem to overestimate the supply of lifeboats.
nl 5y ago
> People are being paid to prevent people from accessing an API and people are being paid to defeat these countermeasures. This is similar to people being paid to dig holes and other people are being paid to fill in the holes Let me tell you about this little thing called tax accountants and the IRS... > I think the aliens would conclude there is something wrong with the economic system. These aliens are unfamiliar with adversarial systems? Reminds me a a SciFi short story I read once where some aliens came to earth. Everyone thought they were amazingly smart, but it turned out they had just been working on their tech for a lot longer and were very dumb. The protagonist in the story figured this out, and sold them the Brooklyn Bridge...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]