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It's perfectly possible for Facebook to not track users at the moment and simultaneously prepare for a future where this is not only acceptable, it's expected.

It's perfectly possible for Facebook to not track users at the moment and simultaneously prepare for a future where this is not only acceptable, it's expected. Facebook has placed a long-term bet that people will willingly share pretty much everything they do. When they file patents like this, they're skating where the puck is headed, not where it is now.

eli 15y ago
Moreover, if you've stumbled on something patentable that could potentially be useful to you (or any competitor) at any point in the future, of course you patent it.
- incongruity 15y ago
  To me this line of thinking lines up precisely with the notion of interest – they see it as something valuable for the future (and happen to be doing it now) – I'm not sure how all of that could lead to any conclusion other than Facebook having very real interest in tracking people.
Bud 15y ago
Yeah. It's also possible, and indeed true, that Facebook is lying through its teeth, aggressively tracking now while claiming not to, introducing ever-more-pervasive and invasive tracking without notifying users or giving them an informed choice in the matter, thus forcibly paving the way for the future that will place them in the most powerful position. Let's be real. Facebook has not "placed a long-term bet"; they are actively engineering that reality right now, despite loud and frequent objections from users.
- gyardley 15y ago
  I agree that Facebook's attained a position of power that lets it actively work towards making its long-term bet a reality. Good for them. I also hope to one day change the world in the direction I'd prefer it to go. That said, there's no concrete evidence that Facebook is 'lying through its teeth'. If they are, the truth will come out - organizations of thousands can't hide bald-faced lies for long. But it would surprise me, because Facebook as an organization doesn't seem particularly stupid, and getting caught lying about cross-domain tracking (especially given our current activist FTC) would be really, really stupid.
  - danssig 15y ago
    bold face lies, i.e. "in print".
- earplug 15y ago
  If Facebook is "lying through its teeth" it will only hurt them in the long run. What is even more realistic is that they are getting (have become) so big that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. That becomes typical in a large organization. This could also simply be a way for them to protect themselves in the future, as we've all seen just how heated the patent space is becoming for the big boys...
  - PakG1 15y ago
    It only hurts them in the long run if they're wrong about what people want. There have been many cases in the past where people raged against something new they didn't want, but the long term view demonstrated that they actually did want it. Potentially scary if this is one of those situations, of course. Certainly, people should have seen the writing on the wall long before this.
  - jellicle 15y ago
    > If Facebook is "lying through its teeth" it will only hurt them in the long run. Because after all, we see corporations being punished every day for lying by the powerful and effective consumer protection organizations in the United States.
    - earplug 15y ago
      Hmmm... I never made any such claims about consumer protection organizations. This is something you've conjured up on your own. The bottom line is, if this is something we (the users) do not want, we have the power to make Facebook change it. We've seen examples of this in the past with Facebook (ex: their friend recommended ad's). I don't believe we can rely on our government run organizations to wholly protect us, nor have I made any such claim. But we sure as hell can vote what we want and don't want, from a private company, through our buying and/or usage patterns.
      - ericd 15y ago
        See this for why your thesis that the market will naturally reject this is probably wrong, even if it's abhorrent to them now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog It's very easy for liberties/expectations to be eroded imperceptibly until they're gone and people think that's the norm because that's the way things are, and everyone seems to be OK with it.
loglog1234 15y ago
it is like I tell my future employer in an interview, that I won't cheat or do anything misconduct. but that also reserve my right to cheat and do something misconduct, and that is expected.

eli 15y ago

Moreover, if you've stumbled on something patentable that could potentially be useful to you (or any competitor) at any point in the future, of course you patent it.

incongruity 15y ago
To me this line of thinking lines up precisely with the notion of interest – they see it as something valuable for the future (and happen to be doing it now) – I'm not sure how all of that could lead to any conclusion other than Facebook having very real interest in tracking people.

Bud 15y ago

Yeah. It's also possible, and indeed true, that Facebook is lying through its teeth, aggressively tracking now while claiming not to, introducing ever-more-pervasive and invasive tracking without notifying users or giving them an informed choice in the matter, thus forcibly paving the way for the future that will place them in the most powerful position. Let's be real. Facebook has not "placed a long-term bet"; they are actively engineering that reality right now, despite loud and frequent objections from users.

gyardley 15y ago
I agree that Facebook's attained a position of power that lets it actively work towards making its long-term bet a reality. Good for them. I also hope to one day change the world in the direction I'd prefer it to go. That said, there's no concrete evidence that Facebook is 'lying through its teeth'. If they are, the truth will come out - organizations of thousands can't hide bald-faced lies for long. But it would surprise me, because Facebook as an organization doesn't seem particularly stupid, and getting caught lying about cross-domain tracking (especially given our current activist FTC) would be really, really stupid.
- danssig 15y ago
  bold face lies, i.e. "in print".
earplug 15y ago
If Facebook is "lying through its teeth" it will only hurt them in the long run. What is even more realistic is that they are getting (have become) so big that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. That becomes typical in a large organization. This could also simply be a way for them to protect themselves in the future, as we've all seen just how heated the patent space is becoming for the big boys...
- PakG1 15y ago
  It only hurts them in the long run if they're wrong about what people want. There have been many cases in the past where people raged against something new they didn't want, but the long term view demonstrated that they actually did want it. Potentially scary if this is one of those situations, of course. Certainly, people should have seen the writing on the wall long before this.
- jellicle 15y ago
  > If Facebook is "lying through its teeth" it will only hurt them in the long run. Because after all, we see corporations being punished every day for lying by the powerful and effective consumer protection organizations in the United States.
  - earplug 15y ago
    Hmmm... I never made any such claims about consumer protection organizations. This is something you've conjured up on your own. The bottom line is, if this is something we (the users) do not want, we have the power to make Facebook change it. We've seen examples of this in the past with Facebook (ex: their friend recommended ad's). I don't believe we can rely on our government run organizations to wholly protect us, nor have I made any such claim. But we sure as hell can vote what we want and don't want, from a private company, through our buying and/or usage patterns.
    - ericd 15y ago
      See this for why your thesis that the market will naturally reject this is probably wrong, even if it's abhorrent to them now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog It's very easy for liberties/expectations to be eroded imperceptibly until they're gone and people think that's the norm because that's the way things are, and everyone seems to be OK with it.

loglog1234 15y ago

it is like I tell my future employer in an interview, that I won't cheat or do anything misconduct. but that also reserve my right to cheat and do something misconduct, and that is expected.