6 ms·

I've been really frustrated by this change, especially on 237. I used to drive in the faster lane on weekdays around noon to get around slower traffic by myself

I've been really frustrated by this change, especially on 237. I used to drive in the faster lane on weekdays around noon to get around slower traffic by myself because that was legal. Now I'd need to pay for the privilege. If I were confident that at least the money would go to road surface maintenance, I'd be partially okay with it. But I'm not, so this is even more ridiculous. 101 has some incredibly bad road surface stretches. 237 is 2 or 3 lanes for most stretches, and periodically there will be clusters of cars going 5-10mph under the limit and now I can't pass them unless I want to pay a Fastrak fee. Mind-boggling, except that they know people here can "afford" it so they think it gives them free-reign to charge.

downrightmike 5y ago
When stuck in between and immovable object and an unstoppable force, yield. IE stop driving so much. I've cut my driving down 90% and I am happier, its crazy how driving makes people upset.
- cscurmudgeon 5y ago
  Not everyone has that luxury. What if you are not rich enough to live near work or your kids school? Just walk/bike/etc. is a form let them eat cake.
  - downrightmike 5y ago
    You change where you work or what you do and move somewhere you can make it.
- spike021 5y ago
  So I can take a train with my dog up the 280 corridor? Ah, right. Caltrain is only on the inside, 101 corridor; also, last I checked it doesn't allow non-service animals. So...
  - downrightmike 5y ago
    Why do you have to go anywhere to have fun with your dog? Dogs are easy, they just want attention.
ripper1138 5y ago
It does seem like they are slowly resurfacing 101. Some sections have a mix of old/new like some lanes have been resurfaced recently. But who knows if that’s paid for by fast lane tolls or not.
- fragmede 5y ago
  There's been heavy traffic around 11pm on weekdays for said resurfacing.
- spike021 5y ago
  I bet they still haven't figured out a fix for the area around the Old Oakland Rd. exit/overpass. IIRC the water table is technically above the road, so any time there's rain that section floods; in addition to that, it also constantly has terrible potholes and they appear almost as quickly as some are fixed.
  - Cerium 5y ago
    A few days ago this was mentioned (yet again) on the Mercury News column "Roadshow" [1]. The column explained that Caltrans did offer to to fix it, but the change was rejected about 30 years ago. [1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/03/03/flooding-on-highway-101-creates-a-steady-stream-of-potholes-roadshow/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/03/03/flooding-on-highway-1...
jxramos 5y ago
I think the difference is that the 101 is a state highway, 237 is a county highway.
- classichasclass 5y ago
  CA 237 is a state highway. https://cahighways.org/ROUTE237.html https://cahighways.org/ROUTE237.html US 101 in that stretch is actually part of the National Highway System and gets federal funding, though notionally all US highways are state highways with a national grid number.
  - jxramos 5y ago
    oh man you're right. I thought that green signage denoted a county road, like you see in the side by side the 237 being green, and the 101 being white. Now I'm curious where that tabulation was I saw years ago that detailed the differences in the sign shape color and appearance. https://www.google.com/maps/place/CA-237,+Milpitas,+CA/@37.4077315,-121.9795477,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipNM8_FygvMhsYcIH-TztjyIqvFcECdhgYkxV4Gv!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNM8_FygvMhsYcIH-TztjyIqvFcECdhgYkxV4Gv%3Dw144-h86-k-no!7i4032!8i2405!4m5!3m4!1s0x808fc9cd3a48ab63:0x97e24e4d53a3a32f!8m2!3d37.4289917!4d-121.9098515 https://www.google.com/maps/place/CA-237,+Milpitas,+CA/@37.4...
- kccqzy 5y ago
  County highways are named with a letter followed by a number. For example Lawrence Expressway is G2. You can see the faded G2 sign at the exit from 237. https://goo.gl/maps/NGaa56Qkb9a8hzXg8 https://goo.gl/maps/NGaa56Qkb9a8hzXg8
BurningFrog 5y ago
The main advantage of pay lanes is that they're fast, and can handle a lot of traffic. With a price, supply and demand can meet where traffic isn't jammed into standstill, and everyone is better off. Sure, it would make sense for the money to go to road maintenance, but to me that's a minor issue.
- kelnos 5y ago
  I don't see why we have these pay lanes at all. If you choose to drive rather than finding an alternative (our admittedly not-great transit system, moving so you live closer to work, etc.[0]), why should you be allowed to pay for the ability to externalize that choice? It just ends up being a regressive tax, and the people who can't afford it end up paying with their time. Just designate one or two lanes as un-tolled HOV3 to encourage carpooling and leave it at that. Direct the funds for road-widening and toll schemes toward improving public transit. Personal travel around the bay area (regardless of whether it's by car, bus, train, or boat) is abysmally embarrassing. Everything done since I moved here 18 years ago have been ineffectual band-aids. [0] Yes, I know these options aren't available to everyone, at least not without significant personal or financial sacrifice, but I bet enough people to make a difference could actually make some useful changes.
  - BurningFrog 5y ago
    This is the most interesting thing I disagree about: > It just ends up being a regressive tax I don't think it's useful to think of paying for goods or services as taxes, just because they're sold by a government entity. I don't think of buying a Bart ticket or sending a package through USPS as a tax. They're not that different from buying a bus ticket from Greyhound or sending a package through FedEx.
    - akira2501 5y ago
      > just because they're sold by a government entity. I think it depends. Is the government holding a monopoly on the market? If so, it's a tax.
cbhl 5y ago
I remember asking about this at one of the community meetings in Redwood City for the San Mateo 101 Express Lanes project. Projections at the time showed a clear trend in increased car traffic on the 101, and thus even HOV lanes would have the same traffic jams as the regular lanes. They couldn't even keep the express lanes as HOV 2+; they needed to change it to 3+ in order to ensure a minimum travel speed of 35mph during rush hour. That said I do find it amusing that if you drive up the I-5 up to Oregon, people suddenly know to keep the left lane clear as a passing lane as soon as you cross into Oregon. (But cross back into California and the _exact same cars_ in your pack will suddenly coast slowly in the leftmost lane.)
- pishpash 5y ago
  Maybe they ticket that behavior in Oregon?

downrightmike 5y ago

When stuck in between and immovable object and an unstoppable force, yield. IE stop driving so much. I've cut my driving down 90% and I am happier, its crazy how driving makes people upset.

cscurmudgeon 5y ago
Not everyone has that luxury. What if you are not rich enough to live near work or your kids school? Just walk/bike/etc. is a form let them eat cake.
- downrightmike 5y ago
  You change where you work or what you do and move somewhere you can make it.
spike021 5y ago
So I can take a train with my dog up the 280 corridor? Ah, right. Caltrain is only on the inside, 101 corridor; also, last I checked it doesn't allow non-service animals. So...
- downrightmike 5y ago
  Why do you have to go anywhere to have fun with your dog? Dogs are easy, they just want attention.

ripper1138 5y ago

It does seem like they are slowly resurfacing 101. Some sections have a mix of old/new like some lanes have been resurfaced recently. But who knows if that’s paid for by fast lane tolls or not.

fragmede 5y ago
There's been heavy traffic around 11pm on weekdays for said resurfacing.
spike021 5y ago
I bet they still haven't figured out a fix for the area around the Old Oakland Rd. exit/overpass. IIRC the water table is technically above the road, so any time there's rain that section floods; in addition to that, it also constantly has terrible potholes and they appear almost as quickly as some are fixed.
- Cerium 5y ago
  A few days ago this was mentioned (yet again) on the Mercury News column "Roadshow" [1]. The column explained that Caltrans did offer to to fix it, but the change was rejected about 30 years ago. [1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/03/03/flooding-on-highway-101-creates-a-steady-stream-of-potholes-roadshow/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/03/03/flooding-on-highway-1...

jxramos 5y ago

I think the difference is that the 101 is a state highway, 237 is a county highway.

classichasclass 5y ago
CA 237 is a state highway. https://cahighways.org/ROUTE237.html https://cahighways.org/ROUTE237.html US 101 in that stretch is actually part of the National Highway System and gets federal funding, though notionally all US highways are state highways with a national grid number.
- jxramos 5y ago
  oh man you're right. I thought that green signage denoted a county road, like you see in the side by side the 237 being green, and the 101 being white. Now I'm curious where that tabulation was I saw years ago that detailed the differences in the sign shape color and appearance. https://www.google.com/maps/place/CA-237,+Milpitas,+CA/@37.4077315,-121.9795477,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipNM8_FygvMhsYcIH-TztjyIqvFcECdhgYkxV4Gv!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNM8_FygvMhsYcIH-TztjyIqvFcECdhgYkxV4Gv%3Dw144-h86-k-no!7i4032!8i2405!4m5!3m4!1s0x808fc9cd3a48ab63:0x97e24e4d53a3a32f!8m2!3d37.4289917!4d-121.9098515 https://www.google.com/maps/place/CA-237,+Milpitas,+CA/@37.4...
kccqzy 5y ago
County highways are named with a letter followed by a number. For example Lawrence Expressway is G2. You can see the faded G2 sign at the exit from 237. https://goo.gl/maps/NGaa56Qkb9a8hzXg8 https://goo.gl/maps/NGaa56Qkb9a8hzXg8

BurningFrog 5y ago

The main advantage of pay lanes is that they're fast, and can handle a lot of traffic. With a price, supply and demand can meet where traffic isn't jammed into standstill, and everyone is better off. Sure, it would make sense for the money to go to road maintenance, but to me that's a minor issue.

kelnos 5y ago
I don't see why we have these pay lanes at all. If you choose to drive rather than finding an alternative (our admittedly not-great transit system, moving so you live closer to work, etc.[0]), why should you be allowed to pay for the ability to externalize that choice? It just ends up being a regressive tax, and the people who can't afford it end up paying with their time. Just designate one or two lanes as un-tolled HOV3 to encourage carpooling and leave it at that. Direct the funds for road-widening and toll schemes toward improving public transit. Personal travel around the bay area (regardless of whether it's by car, bus, train, or boat) is abysmally embarrassing. Everything done since I moved here 18 years ago have been ineffectual band-aids. [0] Yes, I know these options aren't available to everyone, at least not without significant personal or financial sacrifice, but I bet enough people to make a difference could actually make some useful changes.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  This is the most interesting thing I disagree about: > It just ends up being a regressive tax I don't think it's useful to think of paying for goods or services as taxes, just because they're sold by a government entity. I don't think of buying a Bart ticket or sending a package through USPS as a tax. They're not that different from buying a bus ticket from Greyhound or sending a package through FedEx.
  - akira2501 5y ago
    > just because they're sold by a government entity. I think it depends. Is the government holding a monopoly on the market? If so, it's a tax.

cbhl 5y ago

I remember asking about this at one of the community meetings in Redwood City for the San Mateo 101 Express Lanes project. Projections at the time showed a clear trend in increased car traffic on the 101, and thus even HOV lanes would have the same traffic jams as the regular lanes. They couldn't even keep the express lanes as HOV 2+; they needed to change it to 3+ in order to ensure a minimum travel speed of 35mph during rush hour. That said I do find it amusing that if you drive up the I-5 up to Oregon, people suddenly know to keep the left lane clear as a passing lane as soon as you cross into Oregon. (But cross back into California and the _exact same cars_ in your pack will suddenly coast slowly in the leftmost lane.)

pishpash 5y ago
Maybe they ticket that behavior in Oregon?