4 ms·

Doesn't seem incompatible. I assume most people searching for general news about Ukraine are not seeking for Russian state media's take on it.

by eli 5y ago

hammock 5y ago
It's not, for him and anyone else you "assume." For others, yes.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
hajile 5y ago
I've watched US propaganda from WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. I don't trust the US government or their news agencies anymore than any other propaganda. They'll pick the facts that support their side and mix in lies without a second thought. There are three truths in war: My side, their side, and the truth. If they feel compelled to do something, poison the well by marking sites as suspected Russian propaganda. Otherwise, let me read what I want and make up my own mind. If I wanted my search engine to play politics, I'd just use Google.
- chinchilla2020 5y ago
  Any links to this? I would love to watch some old videos from that time.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    It's harder to find news from that time (that time being pre-internet) that isn't based in approved propaganda than news that is. The best thing to read about it would be Walter Lippmann in general, but starting with Public Opinion.
  - somenameforme 5y ago
    Not videos, but these two articles played a formative role in my worldview (related to Iraq): WaPo: "Irrefutable" : https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/02/06/irrefutable/e598b1be-a78a-4a42-8e1a-c336f7a217f4/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/02/06/i... NYTimes: "Irrefutable and Undeniable" : https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/opinion/irrefutable-and-undeniable.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/opinion/irrefutable-and-u... I find it extremely interesting to occasionally reread those knowing what we know now. And nothing has changed, except for now there is significant push to try to censor anything beyond such irrefutable sources.
    - endymi0n 5y ago
      Interesting, seems like the Russian „Firehose of Falsehoods“ model seemed to work pretty well on a sizeable demographic of even HN to make them distrust anything: https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html I‘m not saying I‘m blindly following either sides‘ narrative, but to me there is a clear trustworthyness hierarchy between the narrative of a society where I can still freely read, discuss and criticize these obvious pieces of misinformation (while they stay on the record!) and a society that changes its own narrative every other day and where just mentioning the word „war“ can lock me up in jail for 15 years by now.
      - soundnote 5y ago
        A society that changes its narrative every otver day sounds like America. And it is becoming less free by the day, though less by government coercion and more due to private actors falling in line behind ideology and the idea that neutrality is not just overrated, but wrong and immoral. That the punishment is not prison but people going after your job (and often succeeding at it, and people thinking such thibgs are ok) doesn't mean the society is free. Contrast a society where the government executes you for being gay, where it throws you in prison and a society where everyone looks at you funny and your family disowns you. The degree of coercion differs in all, but are gay people fully free in any?
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
cato_the_elder 5y ago
> Doesn't seem incompatible. Of course they are incompatible to some extent. Otherwise, explicit downranking of Russian sources would be pointless.
freediver 5y ago
Chance is that that many do, specifically if they are from Russia, India, China, Middle east.. so about half the world population? Or anyone who considers them agnostic really, wanting to hear information from all sides before constructing a mental model of the situation.
pessimizer 5y ago
If you're interested in the war, but not interested in communications from the countries involved in that war, that's willful ignorance. The essence of the censorship of Russian, Chinese, and Iranian media is to keep people from media that they would be interested in, not to help people avoid media they're not interested in; people do a good job of that themselves. People who only want to read their government's approved information should download uBlock Homeland while the rest of us read what we want.
- eli 5y ago
  And if you search for communications from the countries involved you will still find them in DDG! They're just no longer on the first page of a "Ukraine news" query
- tylersmith 5y ago
  I bet if they made uBlock Homeland branded as "ruBlock" people would turn using it into a status symbol.
ars 5y ago
They should though. There's no other way to understand this war. Like, to an outsider it's mistifying why Putin is doing this, but even more mystifying why Russia is letting him - reading the news from their POV helps you understand that. Without understanding that, you can't really understand how the war is going, or what the end game is. Western news mostly just wants to tell you about atrocities, and how wonderfully Ukraine is doing against Russia.
- soundnote 5y ago
  https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1498491107902062592 https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1498491107902062592 You could listen to Western sources and understand the Russian perspective much better than the breathless confusion in a lot of media.

Doesn't seem incompatible. I assume most people searching for general news about Ukraine are not seeking for Russian state media's take on it.

by eli 5y ago

Doesn't seem incompatible. I assume most people searching for general news about Ukraine are not seeking for Russian state media's take on it.

hammock 5y ago

It's not, for him and anyone else you "assume." For others, yes.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

hajile 5y ago

I've watched US propaganda from WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. I don't trust the US government or their news agencies anymore than any other propaganda. They'll pick the facts that support their side and mix in lies without a second thought. There are three truths in war: My side, their side, and the truth. If they feel compelled to do something, poison the well by marking sites as suspected Russian propaganda. Otherwise, let me read what I want and make up my own mind. If I wanted my search engine to play politics, I'd just use Google.

chinchilla2020 5y ago
Any links to this? I would love to watch some old videos from that time.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  It's harder to find news from that time (that time being pre-internet) that isn't based in approved propaganda than news that is. The best thing to read about it would be Walter Lippmann in general, but starting with Public Opinion.
- somenameforme 5y ago
  Not videos, but these two articles played a formative role in my worldview (related to Iraq): WaPo: "Irrefutable" : https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/02/06/irrefutable/e598b1be-a78a-4a42-8e1a-c336f7a217f4/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/02/06/i... NYTimes: "Irrefutable and Undeniable" : https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/opinion/irrefutable-and-undeniable.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/opinion/irrefutable-and-u... I find it extremely interesting to occasionally reread those knowing what we know now. And nothing has changed, except for now there is significant push to try to censor anything beyond such irrefutable sources.
  - endymi0n 5y ago
    Interesting, seems like the Russian „Firehose of Falsehoods“ model seemed to work pretty well on a sizeable demographic of even HN to make them distrust anything: https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html I‘m not saying I‘m blindly following either sides‘ narrative, but to me there is a clear trustworthyness hierarchy between the narrative of a society where I can still freely read, discuss and criticize these obvious pieces of misinformation (while they stay on the record!) and a society that changes its own narrative every other day and where just mentioning the word „war“ can lock me up in jail for 15 years by now.
    - soundnote 5y ago
      A society that changes its narrative every otver day sounds like America. And it is becoming less free by the day, though less by government coercion and more due to private actors falling in line behind ideology and the idea that neutrality is not just overrated, but wrong and immoral. That the punishment is not prison but people going after your job (and often succeeding at it, and people thinking such thibgs are ok) doesn't mean the society is free. Contrast a society where the government executes you for being gay, where it throws you in prison and a society where everyone looks at you funny and your family disowns you. The degree of coercion differs in all, but are gay people fully free in any?
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago

cato_the_elder 5y ago

> Doesn't seem incompatible. Of course they are incompatible to some extent. Otherwise, explicit downranking of Russian sources would be pointless.

freediver 5y ago

Chance is that that many do, specifically if they are from Russia, India, China, Middle east.. so about half the world population? Or anyone who considers them agnostic really, wanting to hear information from all sides before constructing a mental model of the situation.

pessimizer 5y ago

If you're interested in the war, but not interested in communications from the countries involved in that war, that's willful ignorance. The essence of the censorship of Russian, Chinese, and Iranian media is to keep people from media that they would be interested in, not to help people avoid media they're not interested in; people do a good job of that themselves. People who only want to read their government's approved information should download uBlock Homeland while the rest of us read what we want.

eli 5y ago
And if you search for communications from the countries involved you will still find them in DDG! They're just no longer on the first page of a "Ukraine news" query
tylersmith 5y ago
I bet if they made uBlock Homeland branded as "ruBlock" people would turn using it into a status symbol.

ars 5y ago

They should though. There's no other way to understand this war. Like, to an outsider it's mistifying why Putin is doing this, but even more mystifying why Russia is letting him - reading the news from their POV helps you understand that. Without understanding that, you can't really understand how the war is going, or what the end game is. Western news mostly just wants to tell you about atrocities, and how wonderfully Ukraine is doing against Russia.

soundnote 5y ago
https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1498491107902062592 https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1498491107902062592 You could listen to Western sources and understand the Russian perspective much better than the breathless confusion in a lot of media.