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Yep. Until very recently, we weren't able to support businesses selling crypto. (The regulatory details are complex.) We're now rolling out support and this pag

by pc 5y ago

Yep. Until very recently, we weren't able to support businesses selling crypto. (The regulatory details are complex.) We're now rolling out support and this page is basically about that change.

muttantt 5y ago
So now you can sell NFTs using Stripe, but still VOIP business startups competing with RingCentral, 8x8, etc. get their Stripe accounts cancelled...
- TechBro8615 5y ago
  Maybe Stripe is using the adapter pattern — once fiat is deprecated, they can remove the technical debt around business restrictions. ;)
harel 5y ago
To be honest, I thought your refusal was probably well justified considering the disproportionate levels of credit card fraud involved in anything to do with crypto. I'd love to see your end of year statistics now...
- rmbyrro 5y ago
  > disproportionate levels of credit card fraud involved in anything to do with crypto Source?
  - harel 5y ago
    Personal observation on 2 projects. See above for details on another reply.
- mcintyre1994 5y ago
  > disproportionate levels of credit card fraud involved in anything to do with crypto I'm really curious what your source is for this. Anyone legit in crypto who's taking fiat is doing way more KYC than your average ecommerce store.
  - trulyme 5y ago
    Besides, why commit credit card fraud when there are so many scam options available in the crypto world. :)
    - harel 5y ago
      There are always scams of different flavours around - that doesn't stop anyone from picking one or another. The appearance of easy money attracts those who seek easy money.
  - harel 5y ago
    My personal observation. A large proportion of credit card payment were fraud, or flagged as such. It was such a huge number (% wise) that I (thought I) understood why stripe pulled the rug out. And in another project I observed a very large and sudden increase at attempted fraud right after elements of crypto were introduced (including attempts at impersonating me, and someone else involved). But honestly, when it comes to the crypto world, I'm that guy who laughed at that other guy for buying bitcoin at 20 cents. There was a lesson there somewhere.
  - FridgeSeal 5y ago
    That’s way a huge amount of NFT’s don’t end up as rug pulls and scams right?
    - stu2b50 5y ago
      I mean that's different from the kind of fraud the parent post was talking about. If a user used their credit card to buy an NFT that quickly went to zero, that's not a fraudulent credit card transaction still - the user authorized that transaction. CC fraud would be if someone stole your credentials and bought something before the card was revoked.
- terry_lisp 5y ago
unfocussed_mike 5y ago
How will a bank that has restrictive policies around crypto know that a Stripe payout made into a customer's account was not related to an NFT sale? Essentially, how are existing Stripe users protected from Stripe's reputational self-harm here?
- ipaddr 5y ago
  How would this bank even know stripe is accepting a new currency? Why would it matter. Money will flow into your account from stripe. Stripe is not a cryto service provider defined by banking regulations. That's like saying a bank won't accept a transfer from another bank because that bank allows you to pay them in cryto.
  - unfocussed_mike 5y ago
    > Stripe is not a cryto service provider defined by banking regulations. But it's now a payment provider that allows businesses in the UK to engage in what surely must be considered high-risk crypto business by the bank (NFT marketplaces). This is the sort of thing that gets businesses denied banking service.
  - biztos 5y ago
    > That's like saying a bank won't accept a transfer from another bank because that bank allows you to pay them in cryto. Or a bank won't accept a transfer from your bank because your bank might be taking deposits from entities subject to strict sanctions, and the plausible deniability is very thin. I think banks are working on that as we speak. Cold days in Cypress soon, etc. The reputation risk of "doing crypto" might be decreasing, but the legal risk of violating sanctions seems to be increasing.
squidlogic 5y ago
Can you be more specific than "Regulatory details are complex"? I think we would enjoy hearing about the complexity! :)
dogman144 5y ago
Well, regulatory details have been complex for years and capable companies with smaller compliance/legal teams found a way to do it. My sense is it's more about the window shifting enough that it's palatable enough for a Stripe product team to stake their professional rep on now. "If Twitter and Square are doing it..." To an extent, I wonder what the impact of the SEC ruling for BlockFi (crypto exchange) did to clarify the regs for larger companies like Stripe.

by pc 5y ago

Yep. Until very recently, we weren't able to support businesses selling crypto. (The regulatory details are complex.) We're now rolling out support and this page is basically about that change.

muttantt 5y ago

So now you can sell NFTs using Stripe, but still VOIP business startups competing with RingCentral, 8x8, etc. get their Stripe accounts cancelled...

TechBro8615 5y ago
Maybe Stripe is using the adapter pattern — once fiat is deprecated, they can remove the technical debt around business restrictions. ;)

harel 5y ago

To be honest, I thought your refusal was probably well justified considering the disproportionate levels of credit card fraud involved in anything to do with crypto. I'd love to see your end of year statistics now...

rmbyrro 5y ago
> disproportionate levels of credit card fraud involved in anything to do with crypto Source?
- harel 5y ago
  Personal observation on 2 projects. See above for details on another reply.
mcintyre1994 5y ago
> disproportionate levels of credit card fraud involved in anything to do with crypto I'm really curious what your source is for this. Anyone legit in crypto who's taking fiat is doing way more KYC than your average ecommerce store.
- trulyme 5y ago
  Besides, why commit credit card fraud when there are so many scam options available in the crypto world. :)
  - harel 5y ago
    There are always scams of different flavours around - that doesn't stop anyone from picking one or another. The appearance of easy money attracts those who seek easy money.
- harel 5y ago
  My personal observation. A large proportion of credit card payment were fraud, or flagged as such. It was such a huge number (% wise) that I (thought I) understood why stripe pulled the rug out. And in another project I observed a very large and sudden increase at attempted fraud right after elements of crypto were introduced (including attempts at impersonating me, and someone else involved). But honestly, when it comes to the crypto world, I'm that guy who laughed at that other guy for buying bitcoin at 20 cents. There was a lesson there somewhere.
- FridgeSeal 5y ago
  That’s way a huge amount of NFT’s don’t end up as rug pulls and scams right?
  - stu2b50 5y ago
    I mean that's different from the kind of fraud the parent post was talking about. If a user used their credit card to buy an NFT that quickly went to zero, that's not a fraudulent credit card transaction still - the user authorized that transaction. CC fraud would be if someone stole your credentials and bought something before the card was revoked.
terry_lisp 5y ago

unfocussed_mike 5y ago

How will a bank that has restrictive policies around crypto know that a Stripe payout made into a customer's account was not related to an NFT sale? Essentially, how are existing Stripe users protected from Stripe's reputational self-harm here?

ipaddr 5y ago
How would this bank even know stripe is accepting a new currency? Why would it matter. Money will flow into your account from stripe. Stripe is not a cryto service provider defined by banking regulations. That's like saying a bank won't accept a transfer from another bank because that bank allows you to pay them in cryto.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  > Stripe is not a cryto service provider defined by banking regulations. But it's now a payment provider that allows businesses in the UK to engage in what surely must be considered high-risk crypto business by the bank (NFT marketplaces). This is the sort of thing that gets businesses denied banking service.
- biztos 5y ago
  > That's like saying a bank won't accept a transfer from another bank because that bank allows you to pay them in cryto. Or a bank won't accept a transfer from your bank because your bank might be taking deposits from entities subject to strict sanctions, and the plausible deniability is very thin. I think banks are working on that as we speak. Cold days in Cypress soon, etc. The reputation risk of "doing crypto" might be decreasing, but the legal risk of violating sanctions seems to be increasing.

squidlogic 5y ago

Can you be more specific than "Regulatory details are complex"? I think we would enjoy hearing about the complexity! :)

dogman144 5y ago

Well, regulatory details have been complex for years and capable companies with smaller compliance/legal teams found a way to do it. My sense is it's more about the window shifting enough that it's palatable enough for a Stripe product team to stake their professional rep on now. "If Twitter and Square are doing it..." To an extent, I wonder what the impact of the SEC ruling for BlockFi (crypto exchange) did to clarify the regs for larger companies like Stripe.