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but goodness are they chalking up reasons for me to never live in there again California doesn't set Turo's toll policies, and many states have implemented aut

but goodness are they chalking up reasons for me to never live in there again California doesn't set Turo's toll policies, and many states have implemented automated tolling, so your list of states to live in in going to get smaller and smaller. I think the biggest problem with automated tolling is that every state has their own independent system -- the federal government should enforce one standard, so I can use my toll reader on any toll road in the country. Oh hey, I was looking to see if there was a multi-state toll tag and it sounds like the US government did pass a law requiring interoperability, but this linked website doesn't appear to sell this "nationalpass", so I don't know what happened to the law: https://www.nationalpass.net/ https://www.nationalpass.net/ Toll Interoperability by 2016 H.R.4348 - MAP-21 In 2012, Congress passed the Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Act (MAP-21) to ease the burden of tolled interstate travel by providing motorists the convenience of a single toll tag and account.

bigbillheck 5y ago
> every state has their own independent system -- the federal government should enforce one standard, so I can use my toll reader on any toll road in the country. My EZ-Pass works in 19 states.
- brewdad 5y ago
  And I have a transponder for the Seattle area that I use about 3-5 times a year. I don't live in Washington but I do visit regularly. It doesn't work anywhere else but when I need it, I need it. A nationwide standard really is needed.
bbarn 5y ago
I don't think interstate highways should be tolled, period. They were paid for decades ago, and maintenance should be covered by the existing gas tax. I am not opposed to convenience highways in metro areas being tolled, as long as there is a non-toll option that is reasonably similar in non-rush hour times. As it stands the major Chicago to New York and New York to DC routes are tolls almost the entire way. The nation paid for those routes, and now pays to use them as well.
- arrosenberg 5y ago
  It should definitely be tolled, but for a different reason. The only effective way to control congestion is to put a price on it, so the tolls should kick in iff there is heavy traffic.
  - outworlder 5y ago
    > The only effective way to control congestion is to put a price on it The actual effective way is to provide alternative transportation options.
    - arrosenberg 5y ago
      Right, I think most people on HN get that. This was a thread about highway tolls.
    - Johnny555 5y ago
      I'm not sure that's true, just providing alternative transportation doesn't by itself control congestion-- London has good alternative transportation options, but also has a £15 congestion charge (i.e. toll) to limit traffic during peak hours. If the roads are free to use and not congested, many people will use them until the cost or inconvenience of using the road is greater than the alternative transportation. (that's not true of everyone, of course, some will use alternative transportation even at greater cost or inconvenience)
  - ThunderSizzle 5y ago
    The other option is reduce the entrances/exits in metro areas so that most traffic on metro interstates is no longer traffic that is going from one area of the metro to another area. The metro areas should be responsible for handling intra-metro traffic, and that traffic should stay away from interstates.
- Bud 5y ago
  This seems like a reasonable argument, but in this case we're talking about 101, which is not an interstate highway.
mindslight 5y ago
The biggest problem with automated tolling is there is no law restricting how rental companies can use those tolls against you. I don't know the current state of things, but there used to be this thing where rental companies would charge you say a $30 convenience fee simply for passing on a $3 toll charge. The consent-fiction was to bring your own toll transponder and cross your fingers it worked or avoid toll roads or whatever. This of course is the shape of much corruption in the US - the government mandates some thing but with no restrictions on its abuse, and then private companies leverage that mandate to screw you (see also: DL/SSN numbers). What needs to happen is any such mandates need to be designed as complete systems that regulate all constructive behavior, rather than mere partial solutions that complexity gets built on top of.
jcranmer 5y ago
Ah yes, MAP-21. It passed a requirement that all electronic toll systems become interoperable by 2016, but without any penalty for failure or money inducements to succeed, so nothing happened. Well, that's not quite true. There are a couple of major consortia of electronic toll systems in the US. The largest consortium is the E-ZPass system, which started out with a cooperation in the NYC area and grew to encompass basically everything from Illinois to Virginia to Maine by the time MAP-21 passed. Since it was the largest, in terms of number of systems implemented, their position was more or less that everyone would implement compatibility with E-ZPass. North Carolina, Minnesota, Florida (and I believe Kentucky) added compatibility to E-ZPass post-2012. The other three consortia are California (interoperable with no one else, because California I guess), the Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas group, and the Georgia/North Carolina/Florida interoperability region (which will be fully subsumed by E-ZPass once Georgia's system becomes interoperable, apparently later this year). There's still a couple of systems that interoperate with nobody else as well.

bigbillheck 5y ago

> every state has their own independent system -- the federal government should enforce one standard, so I can use my toll reader on any toll road in the country. My EZ-Pass works in 19 states.

brewdad 5y ago
And I have a transponder for the Seattle area that I use about 3-5 times a year. I don't live in Washington but I do visit regularly. It doesn't work anywhere else but when I need it, I need it. A nationwide standard really is needed.

bbarn 5y ago

I don't think interstate highways should be tolled, period. They were paid for decades ago, and maintenance should be covered by the existing gas tax. I am not opposed to convenience highways in metro areas being tolled, as long as there is a non-toll option that is reasonably similar in non-rush hour times. As it stands the major Chicago to New York and New York to DC routes are tolls almost the entire way. The nation paid for those routes, and now pays to use them as well.

arrosenberg 5y ago
It should definitely be tolled, but for a different reason. The only effective way to control congestion is to put a price on it, so the tolls should kick in iff there is heavy traffic.
- outworlder 5y ago
  > The only effective way to control congestion is to put a price on it The actual effective way is to provide alternative transportation options.
  - arrosenberg 5y ago
    Right, I think most people on HN get that. This was a thread about highway tolls.
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    I'm not sure that's true, just providing alternative transportation doesn't by itself control congestion-- London has good alternative transportation options, but also has a £15 congestion charge (i.e. toll) to limit traffic during peak hours. If the roads are free to use and not congested, many people will use them until the cost or inconvenience of using the road is greater than the alternative transportation. (that's not true of everyone, of course, some will use alternative transportation even at greater cost or inconvenience)
- ThunderSizzle 5y ago
  The other option is reduce the entrances/exits in metro areas so that most traffic on metro interstates is no longer traffic that is going from one area of the metro to another area. The metro areas should be responsible for handling intra-metro traffic, and that traffic should stay away from interstates.
Bud 5y ago
This seems like a reasonable argument, but in this case we're talking about 101, which is not an interstate highway.

mindslight 5y ago

The biggest problem with automated tolling is there is no law restricting how rental companies can use those tolls against you. I don't know the current state of things, but there used to be this thing where rental companies would charge you say a $30 convenience fee simply for passing on a $3 toll charge. The consent-fiction was to bring your own toll transponder and cross your fingers it worked or avoid toll roads or whatever. This of course is the shape of much corruption in the US - the government mandates some thing but with no restrictions on its abuse, and then private companies leverage that mandate to screw you (see also: DL/SSN numbers). What needs to happen is any such mandates need to be designed as complete systems that regulate all constructive behavior, rather than mere partial solutions that complexity gets built on top of.

jcranmer 5y ago

Ah yes, MAP-21. It passed a requirement that all electronic toll systems become interoperable by 2016, but without any penalty for failure or money inducements to succeed, so nothing happened. Well, that's not quite true. There are a couple of major consortia of electronic toll systems in the US. The largest consortium is the E-ZPass system, which started out with a cooperation in the NYC area and grew to encompass basically everything from Illinois to Virginia to Maine by the time MAP-21 passed. Since it was the largest, in terms of number of systems implemented, their position was more or less that everyone would implement compatibility with E-ZPass. North Carolina, Minnesota, Florida (and I believe Kentucky) added compatibility to E-ZPass post-2012. The other three consortia are California (interoperable with no one else, because California I guess), the Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas group, and the Georgia/North Carolina/Florida interoperability region (which will be fully subsumed by E-ZPass once Georgia's system becomes interoperable, apparently later this year). There's still a couple of systems that interoperate with nobody else as well.