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> All you have to do is listen to him, he spent months spelling out his concerns and motivations. Listening to Putin's justifications is quite literally swallo

> All you have to do is listen to him, he spent months spelling out his concerns and motivations. Listening to Putin's justifications is quite literally swallowing his propaganda. He also said he was going there to de-Nazify Ukraine. ~2500 Azov Battalion members is not his concern. There are more Nazis in Russia than Ukraine. He wants Ukraine because they're the breadbasket of the Eastern Bloc. He wants to expand Russia's territory. Just look at Crimea. Any "fear" or "self-defense" Putin convinces you he is acting on is nothing but falling for his anti-west propaganda.

throw-ru-938 5y ago
> He also said he was going there to de-Nazify Ukraine ...meanwhile Russia's very own Wagner Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group) is composed of literal Nazis, swastika tattoos and all.
0xy 5y ago
The original question was about motivations, if you read my comment you'll see I never said the response was justified. >He also said he was going there to de-Nazify Ukraine Sounds like US bringing "democracy" to Syria by arming rebels who behead children. [1] >He wants Ukraine because they're the breadbasket of the Eastern Bloc The hit from sanctions is larger than the potential gain in food security so I find this argument very hard to believe, and I haven't seen anyone reputable make this claim either. >He wants to expand Russia's territory This seems like a claim that is not supported by Russia's actions nor words. What evidence is there of this? It's like claiming the US invaded Afghanistan to expand territory. >Just look at Crimea. Crimean people wanted to join Russia according to independent non-Russian pollsters like Pew, so I find it hard to care. The people overwhelmingly supported it, unless you think democracy doesn't matter. >Any "fear" or "self-defense" Putin convinces you he is acting on is nothing but falling for his anti-west propaganda. This would be easier to believe if Kamala Harris wasn't sabre rattling in Munich last month. [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-backed-moderate-rebels-behead-a-child-near-aleppo https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-backed-moderate-rebels-behe...
- metamet 5y ago
  > Sounds like US bringing "democracy" to Syria by arming rebels who behead children. While the US's foreign policy is abhorrent, they're really not comparable. Putin created a strawman and has been telling Russians that they're there as a means to defend Russia from Ukrainian Nazis. It's more similar to the US invading Iraq because of WMDs. > The hit from sanctions is larger than the potential gain in food security so I find this argument very hard to believe, and I haven't seen anyone reputable make this claim either. Clearly Putin miscalculated. He thought Ukraine would roll over. Ukraine's role as the breadbasket isn't a secret. Adding that amount of fertile land to Russia's territory is a fairly obvious reason for wanting to acquire it [1]. From a strategic point of view, it's been discussed since before the invasion as a reason why he'd want to take over Ukraine (and why Crimea was a stepping stone to doing so). > This seems like a claim that is not supported by Russia's actions nor words. What evidence is there of this? It's like claiming the US invaded Afghanistan to expand territory. How is Russia invading Ukraine in attempt to take it over not supported by this? > This would be easier to believe if Kamala Harris wasn't sabre rattling in Munich last month. It's pretty obvious that Putin would use this as a means to justify escalation. He'd been moving armaments and soldiers to the border for much longer than a month. This has been a plan in action for quite a while. It's wild to claim that VP Harris's presence a couple of weeks before Russia's invasion had any actual involvement with Putin's justifications for invasion. [1] https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2022-03-06/russian-war-in-worlds-breadbasket-threatens-food-supply https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2022-03-06/rus...
  - 0xy 5y ago
    >How is Russia invading Ukraine in attempt to take it over This is opinion. Russia doesn't claim this, nor do their actions suggest this is their goal. Invasion is hardly ever about territory expansion. Afghanisatan, Iraq, Libya. Take your pick. If China invaded Taiwan it'd be easy to say it was an attempt to take it over, because China has literally stated this is their goal. Russia has never said anything remotely like that. >It's wild to claim that VP Harris's presence a couple of weeks before Russia's invasion had any actual involvement with Putin's justifications for invasion. She was in Europe advocating Ukraine join NATO after Russia stated it is unacceptable. How is this not provocation? Kamala Harris is a liability and has a long line of incompetent decision making in her career, whether it's throwing innocent black men in jail as a prosecutor or being highly involved in the Afghanistan catastrophe. This is simply her latest failure in leadership.
jrs235 5y ago
>He wants Ukraine because they're the breadbasket of the Eastern Bloc. He wants to expand Russia's territory. Just look at Crimea. I would argue he wants Ukraine so he can protect and control the energy (gas/oil) supply and maintain his personal position, power, and control and his (Russia's) position over Europe (because they are dependent on "him" and Russian energy (gas/oil).

throw-ru-938 5y ago

> He also said he was going there to de-Nazify Ukraine ...meanwhile Russia's very own Wagner Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group) is composed of literal Nazis, swastika tattoos and all.

0xy 5y ago

The original question was about motivations, if you read my comment you'll see I never said the response was justified. >He also said he was going there to de-Nazify Ukraine Sounds like US bringing "democracy" to Syria by arming rebels who behead children. [1] >He wants Ukraine because they're the breadbasket of the Eastern Bloc The hit from sanctions is larger than the potential gain in food security so I find this argument very hard to believe, and I haven't seen anyone reputable make this claim either. >He wants to expand Russia's territory This seems like a claim that is not supported by Russia's actions nor words. What evidence is there of this? It's like claiming the US invaded Afghanistan to expand territory. >Just look at Crimea. Crimean people wanted to join Russia according to independent non-Russian pollsters like Pew, so I find it hard to care. The people overwhelmingly supported it, unless you think democracy doesn't matter. >Any "fear" or "self-defense" Putin convinces you he is acting on is nothing but falling for his anti-west propaganda. This would be easier to believe if Kamala Harris wasn't sabre rattling in Munich last month. [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-backed-moderate-rebels-behead-a-child-near-aleppo https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-backed-moderate-rebels-behe...

metamet 5y ago
> Sounds like US bringing "democracy" to Syria by arming rebels who behead children. While the US's foreign policy is abhorrent, they're really not comparable. Putin created a strawman and has been telling Russians that they're there as a means to defend Russia from Ukrainian Nazis. It's more similar to the US invading Iraq because of WMDs. > The hit from sanctions is larger than the potential gain in food security so I find this argument very hard to believe, and I haven't seen anyone reputable make this claim either. Clearly Putin miscalculated. He thought Ukraine would roll over. Ukraine's role as the breadbasket isn't a secret. Adding that amount of fertile land to Russia's territory is a fairly obvious reason for wanting to acquire it [1]. From a strategic point of view, it's been discussed since before the invasion as a reason why he'd want to take over Ukraine (and why Crimea was a stepping stone to doing so). > This seems like a claim that is not supported by Russia's actions nor words. What evidence is there of this? It's like claiming the US invaded Afghanistan to expand territory. How is Russia invading Ukraine in attempt to take it over not supported by this? > This would be easier to believe if Kamala Harris wasn't sabre rattling in Munich last month. It's pretty obvious that Putin would use this as a means to justify escalation. He'd been moving armaments and soldiers to the border for much longer than a month. This has been a plan in action for quite a while. It's wild to claim that VP Harris's presence a couple of weeks before Russia's invasion had any actual involvement with Putin's justifications for invasion. [1] https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2022-03-06/russian-war-in-worlds-breadbasket-threatens-food-supply https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2022-03-06/rus...
- 0xy 5y ago
  >How is Russia invading Ukraine in attempt to take it over This is opinion. Russia doesn't claim this, nor do their actions suggest this is their goal. Invasion is hardly ever about territory expansion. Afghanisatan, Iraq, Libya. Take your pick. If China invaded Taiwan it'd be easy to say it was an attempt to take it over, because China has literally stated this is their goal. Russia has never said anything remotely like that. >It's wild to claim that VP Harris's presence a couple of weeks before Russia's invasion had any actual involvement with Putin's justifications for invasion. She was in Europe advocating Ukraine join NATO after Russia stated it is unacceptable. How is this not provocation? Kamala Harris is a liability and has a long line of incompetent decision making in her career, whether it's throwing innocent black men in jail as a prosecutor or being highly involved in the Afghanistan catastrophe. This is simply her latest failure in leadership.

jrs235 5y ago

>He wants Ukraine because they're the breadbasket of the Eastern Bloc. He wants to expand Russia's territory. Just look at Crimea. I would argue he wants Ukraine so he can protect and control the energy (gas/oil) supply and maintain his personal position, power, and control and his (Russia's) position over Europe (because they are dependent on "him" and Russian energy (gas/oil).