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I didn't say we need to ask people to change their behavior. I know that that's futile. My point is that great alternatives already exist, that don't demand a b

by shafyy 5y ago

I didn't say we need to ask people to change their behavior. I know that that's futile. My point is that great alternatives already exist, that don't demand a behavior change. For example, renewable energies and plant-based meats (Impossible and others).

coldpie 5y ago
You did, though, it's right in your comment: "excuse to not change their behavior today." And no, plant-based meat isn't there yet. It's something I often choose myself for environmental reasons, but it's still strictly worse than real beef. And non-ground meat substitutes aren't even in the ballpark.
- shafyy 5y ago
  I'd bet you a lot of money that most people can't make out an Impossible burger vs. a beef burger in a blind taste. Tasting has to do a lot with psychology (see Pepsi vs. Coke blind tastes), and that's why people think plant-based meat sucks (there's a big variance in quality, agreed). Lab-grown meat won't change this fact.
  - coldpie 5y ago
    We're at the point of disagreeing over opinion, but I'm pretty confident you'd lose that bet :) I say this as someone who usually orders the Impossible option. It is the first plant-based meat I've had that actually crosses the threshold into "good enough," but it's still noticeably inferior to a good beef burger. Most plant-based meats genuinely do suck, I prefer just forgoing those and doing a mostly-vegetarian diet, personally. I think lab-grown meat has a much better chance than plant-based meats of satisfying the "want" of meat, while drastically lowering the environmental effects of eating meat. And again, I think pursuing both options is the best choice. I eat less meat thanks to Impossible, and I hope they continue to succeed.
Nathanael_M 5y ago
These both demand behaviour changes. Using renewable energy is a behaviour change (although no one's running their own oil refinery in their backyard) even if it's at a different tier and eating plant based meats is CERTAINLY a behaviour change. I think asking everyone to start eating mediocre faux-ground-beef is a pretty big behaviour change.
- shafyy 5y ago
  Following that logic, eating lab-grown meat will is also a behavior change. So, my point still stands.
  - Nathanael_M 5y ago
    I didn't say it wasn't a behaviour change. This was a response to your statement that your solutions didn't demand behaviour changes, when they both demand significant behaviour changes. My argument, which I have yet to state in this dialogue, is that lab grown meat offers the opportunity to provide an experience very similar to eating "real" meat at a lower cost to the consumer, thus making it a viable alternative in ways that today's current plant based meat substitutes aren't. I am definitely open to plant based meat substitutes taking that role, but in their current form that would still require a large behaviour change by a large percentage of the population. Now renewable energy is different discussion and that requires a much smaller number of people to make (albeit much larger) behaviour changes.
    - shafyy 5y ago
      Fair enough. But the reality is that lab grown meat doesn't exist, so we are not certain how it will taste. Plant-based meats have come a long way in the past 5 years. Let's see where they are in another 5 years, at which point lab grown meat still won't exist at a scale and price point that's available to the mainstream consumer. I don't have anything against people pursuing lab grown meat research. I'm just a bit pissed that "futuristic" solutions get so much more mainstream media attention than practical solutions that already have an impact today.

by shafyy 5y ago

coldpie 5y ago

You did, though, it's right in your comment: "excuse to not change their behavior today." And no, plant-based meat isn't there yet. It's something I often choose myself for environmental reasons, but it's still strictly worse than real beef. And non-ground meat substitutes aren't even in the ballpark.

shafyy 5y ago
I'd bet you a lot of money that most people can't make out an Impossible burger vs. a beef burger in a blind taste. Tasting has to do a lot with psychology (see Pepsi vs. Coke blind tastes), and that's why people think plant-based meat sucks (there's a big variance in quality, agreed). Lab-grown meat won't change this fact.
- coldpie 5y ago
  We're at the point of disagreeing over opinion, but I'm pretty confident you'd lose that bet :) I say this as someone who usually orders the Impossible option. It is the first plant-based meat I've had that actually crosses the threshold into "good enough," but it's still noticeably inferior to a good beef burger. Most plant-based meats genuinely do suck, I prefer just forgoing those and doing a mostly-vegetarian diet, personally. I think lab-grown meat has a much better chance than plant-based meats of satisfying the "want" of meat, while drastically lowering the environmental effects of eating meat. And again, I think pursuing both options is the best choice. I eat less meat thanks to Impossible, and I hope they continue to succeed.

Nathanael_M 5y ago

These both demand behaviour changes. Using renewable energy is a behaviour change (although no one's running their own oil refinery in their backyard) even if it's at a different tier and eating plant based meats is CERTAINLY a behaviour change. I think asking everyone to start eating mediocre faux-ground-beef is a pretty big behaviour change.

shafyy 5y ago
Following that logic, eating lab-grown meat will is also a behavior change. So, my point still stands.
- Nathanael_M 5y ago
  I didn't say it wasn't a behaviour change. This was a response to your statement that your solutions didn't demand behaviour changes, when they both demand significant behaviour changes. My argument, which I have yet to state in this dialogue, is that lab grown meat offers the opportunity to provide an experience very similar to eating "real" meat at a lower cost to the consumer, thus making it a viable alternative in ways that today's current plant based meat substitutes aren't. I am definitely open to plant based meat substitutes taking that role, but in their current form that would still require a large behaviour change by a large percentage of the population. Now renewable energy is different discussion and that requires a much smaller number of people to make (albeit much larger) behaviour changes.
  - shafyy 5y ago
    Fair enough. But the reality is that lab grown meat doesn't exist, so we are not certain how it will taste. Plant-based meats have come a long way in the past 5 years. Let's see where they are in another 5 years, at which point lab grown meat still won't exist at a scale and price point that's available to the mainstream consumer. I don't have anything against people pursuing lab grown meat research. I'm just a bit pissed that "futuristic" solutions get so much more mainstream media attention than practical solutions that already have an impact today.