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Overview of Text Editors for Programming on the Mac

142 points by hukl 15y ago

CJefferson 15y ago
This article is a little too light on details. In particular Kod seems to have stagnated completely, there has been no updates to the source tree since June 20th, and even before that the updates were very light. Kod is an interesting idea, but in it's current state I didn't find it very usable.
- Groxx 15y ago
  And a week late on the TextMate 2 announcement: http://blog.macromates.com/2011/whats-next/ http://blog.macromates.com/2011/whats-next/
  - billforsternz 15y ago
    Not at all, he mentions the announcement and includes the link in the article.
nestlequ1k 15y ago
100% agree with his conclusion. For textmate fans who havent been able to make the jump to vim or emacs, try sublime text 2. It blows away textmate in every dept, and is incredibly extendable. Theres nothing out there thats more powerful (aside from vim/emacs)
- cormullion 15y ago
  Even in the documentation department?
  - danieldk 15y ago
    Well, nearly all settings are documented in: Packages/Default/*.sublime-settings All default keyboard shortcuts are in: Packages/Default/*.sublime-keymap So, yes, there is plenty of documentation, but not on the website ;).
    - cormullion 15y ago
      Indeed, there are some comments in the config files... :) Vim and BBEdit have the best documentation: http://www.barebones.com/support/bbedit/manual.html http://www.barebones.com/support/bbedit/manual.html http://www.truth.sk/vim/vimbook-OPL.pdf http://www.truth.sk/vim/vimbook-OPL.pdf TextMate's manual isn't too bad: http://manual.macromates.com/en/all_pages.html http://manual.macromates.com/en/all_pages.html
  - ary 15y ago
    The documentation isn't terrible, but it is certainly lacking. After it escapes beta I imagine things will progress in the documentation department.
  - shawndumas 15y ago
    http://sublimetext.info/docs/en/ http://sublimetext.info/docs/en/
LeafStorm 15y ago
I would just like to throw in that the major obstacle to my finding an editor on Mac OS X has been the pricetag involved with most of the more popular editors. Sure, $60 isn't much if you already have a stable programming job, but I am a college student (which is financially the exact opposite of a stable programming job), and as a college student I am generally highly adverse to paying for things (especially software, since I "grew up" as a programmer among Linux and OSS). That said, TextWrangler is a decent option if you aren't in the mood to spend money. The only thing I miss about other editors from TextWrangler is an actual file browser that works like Gedit's instead of "you can only have one file open from the file browser at once."
- deleted 15y ago
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- dongsheng 15y ago
  Seriously, if you want value of money, learn vim or emacs, they kick any $60 worth editors.
  - timtadh 15y ago
    Or you know, (re)install linux and use any of the great text editors available on that platform. I think linux is the best platform for CS types in college.
    - swah 15y ago
      Like vim and emacs.
    - frou_dh 15y ago
      Since vim and emacs run fine on OS X, do you mean GUI ones? I think Linux is the worst platform in terms of GUI experience.
      - rat 15y ago
        why? also kate is a very nice editor gui editor(mainly linux but probably runs on os x/windows -because of kde portability)
goshakkk 15y ago
Agree with the conclusion. I used TextMate for a while. Then I came to Sublime Text 2 and think it's the best editor ever.
frou_dh 15y ago
The Sublime Text 2 developer is wonderfully responsive. I've emailed suggestions twice and they were both implemented and in short order. I was disappointed that discussions on the Mac-centric 5by5 podcast network framed BBEdit as the only place to go from TextMate. Granted, BBEdit has a history of not being abandoned, but it's clearly near the end of its evolution while bright new things like Sublime are blazing forward.
- sigzero 15y ago
  BBEdit: I keep hoping "the next version" brings it up to speed.
- ary 15y ago
  Which Mac-centric 5by5 podcast are you talking about? If it's "The Talk Show" keep in mind that John Gruber used to work for Bare Bones Software (the makers of BBEdit), so take his recommendation with a grain of salt. I'll repeat myself from other comments here on HN. Sublime Text 2 is amazing and worth every penny of the $59 it costs.
  - frou_dh 15y ago
    IIRC Hypercritical, Build & Analyze and Back to Work. 5by5 is packed with Mac nerds! I stopped subscribing to The Talk Show during its original run because John's manner was so lethargic. I like his site but not his podcast.
- getsat 15y ago
  Sublime Text 2 is the cat's ass. Oh, how I've longed for multi-file editing in Textmate for so many years...
- LVB 15y ago
  I agree about the short shrift Sublime Text 2 was given on 5by5. I'd expect that those hosts who are happy with BBEdit or whatever will sing their editor's praises, but it was more annoying that Marco's investigation of TextMate alternatives was effectively to try BBEdit for a few days and then go back to TM1.
deleted 15y ago
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- deleted 15y ago
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cubicle67 15y ago
I've been on a Mac a few years and tried a few editors, so (for what it's worth) here's my 2c. Main use case is scripting and Rails development. Smultron: Used this a bit. not bad but I didn't really take to it. Missing a number of features Vi: still use it regularly, but I don't have much skill with it. Extra handy for quick editing of a single file (I use the command line a lot so vi is convenient) Aquamacs/Emacs: Gave this a shot but really had no idea how to use it. Gave up in the end Netbeans: Been using this for years and found it mostly the best fir for my needs. Looked around when Orace took it over and ended up with... Rubymine: Excellent. Great fit for me, although I'm still on 3.1 as the newer releases run like molasses on my aging macbook. It's a bit heavyweight, but it has a ton of really useful features. Kod: Showed great promise as a Scite replacement but seems to have been abandoned. (Scite was what I used in Windows for years. fantastic once you change the default fonts) Texmate: Used the demo, couldn't see what it offered over netbeans GEdit: Used this all the time in Linux and was surprised to find it runs fine out of the box on the Mac! Great for reading extra large files like long logs etc. Textwrangler: For some reason I really can't get to liking this. I give it a shot again every now and then but it just doesn't seem to work the way I do Coda: Looks lovely but I just couldn't get over the price.
- dongsheng 15y ago
  > GEdit: Used this all the time in Linux and was surprised to find it runs fine out of the box on the Mac! Great for reading extra large files like long logs etc. Does Gedit for require X11?
  - natesm 15y ago
    There is/was a Cocoa build of GTK, so it's probably possible to build it.
  - cubicle67 15y ago
    I honestly have no idea, but I guess so. Here's the page http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/ http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/ link to dmg is on the rhs. I was very pleased to see it looks just like gedit should (they haven't os-x-ified it)
- 15y ago
chicagobob 15y ago
FWIW: I use XCode for all Objective-C development, TextMate for almost everything else, and BBEdit to open large files (IMO the single biggest area of weakness for TextMate). I've tried other editors, but 3 covers everything I need.
- Derbasti 15y ago
  I tried to use Texmate like that for a while but ultimately, not having a sensible undo and the kind of sucky non-regex incremental search blew it for me.
boernsj 15y ago
Komodo Edit (http://www.activestate.com/komodo-edit http://www.activestate.com/komodo-edit) anyone?
- raarky 15y ago
  yes! komodo edit is awesome
SebMortelmans 15y ago
how do you write such article without using screenshots :s
JonnieCache 15y ago
I've just had a look at sublime text 2, and it's everything I'm looking for in a textmate replacement. After several abortive attempts to enjoy coding in macvim, I can't believe I didn't try this sooner. EDIT: does anyone know how I can get two different projects in different sides of a split in the same window? I know this is going against OSX's window management paradigm, but I'm sick of pressing CMD ~ all day, trying to mentally model a stack of windows in LRU/z-order is a cognitive burden I can do without. EDIT: I love how the Preferences menu item just opens the config file. EDIT: OMG OMG it actually goes to the most recently open tab on tab close by default, rather than the one on the left! Hallelujah! It kills me that browsers still don't do this.
- frou_dh 15y ago
  Goto Anything and its composability[0] deserves an EDIT :) [0] http://www.sublimetext.com/blog/articles/sublime-text-2-public-alpha http://www.sublimetext.com/blog/articles/sublime-text-2-publ...
  - JonnieCache 15y ago
    Also the minimap is, in the words of my mate Gaz, "fucking leet."
    - hmottestad 15y ago
      1337
- lunaru 15y ago
  I can't be the only one waiting eagerly for sublime text to include transparency/alpha-channel backgrounds right? That was one of the big sticking points for me in TextMate, and also one of the big reasons vim on OSX terminal is my secondary option. I know it sounds like a silly thing to dwell on, but having my editor slightly transparent helps a lot when dealing with UI work.
- nrbafna 15y ago
  If anyone is trying out Sublime Text for the first time, also refer http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/tools-and-tips/sublime-text-2-tips-and-tricks/ http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/tools-and-tips/sublime-tex...
sodiumphosphate 15y ago
I just recently switched to Sublime Text 2, and a after a solid week of coding in it, I must say I'm hooked. It's the best editor I've ever used. I'm writing Boo, both client-side (Unity3D) and server-side (between Mongrel2 and Redis), and all it took was for me to drop in the Boo TextMate bundle and away we went. The Boo bundle is outdated and needs some love, and Unity integration is missing, but Sublime is so nice that it really seems worth the effort of getting these things set up (when I can get around to it). For now, however, I'm quite happy with it. Before the switch I jumped around (angrily) between Unitron (Unity's Smultron fork), Smultron, MonoDevelop (still sucks on Mac), GEdit (great editor, but GTK looks like shit on Mac), and tried several others without satisfaction. Sublime is like a breath of fresh air.
JSig 15y ago
I really like the package management options in emacs. Between Package.el (baked into emacs 24) and el-get I can include almost anything I need by configuring my dotfile. Packages from marmalade, elpa, git repo, hg, emacs wiki, etc... I can blow away my .emacs.d and, when I restart, all of my configured packages are retrieved and installed. Bliss!
hackermom 15y ago
I'm the Smultron/Makefile type.
shabble 15y ago
For Emacs users, Plain ol' GNU Emacs[1] is almost as tickbox compliant as Aquamacs, and has the benefits of not breaking a whole lot of existing stuff by trying to retrofit it with a 'Mac OSX User Experience'. If you're familiar with standard emacs settings[2] (and have the appropriate vitriol for those who falter into cua-mode), then http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AquamacsFAQ http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AquamacsFAQ might be of use. [1] Fairly recent binary builds are maintained at http://emacsformacosx.com/ http://emacsformacosx.com/ [2] or, more probably, a config built over several years of slow accretion.
- magoghm 15y ago
  I use Aquamacs with Unity to develop games. Opening a script file into an Aquamacs buffer by just clicking on it in Unity is very useful to me.
  - shabble 15y ago
    That should be fairly achievable with either-macs. I started out with Aquamacs, but ended up getting annoyed with enough of the differences that I finally switched back to the (then Carbon, now Cocoa) emacs. Most of the useful settings live in the ns- customize-variable land. ; open all new files in existing frame (setq ns-pop-up-frames nil) ; make Cmd act as meta. (setq ns-command-modifier 'meta) ; ... C-h v ns- TAB TAB
jkmcf 15y ago
The main features Sublime Text 2 needs before I give them money (since I already have TM and Rubymine): - code navigation: The main reason I deal with rubymine cpu and memory hogging. - intellisense-ishness: The 2nd reason I deal with rubymine. - better preferences interface: way too emacsish, but is probably much easier for cross-platform compatibility. The only reason I don't use emacs is its abominable configuration process. I used to use Lucid/XEmacs way back when, but I lost whatever emacs mojo I had gained when I was "forced" to use Windows.
- kemayo 15y ago
  There is a plugin called SublimeCodeIntel[1], which basically rips the code intelligence stuff out of Komodo and packages it up for Sublime. [1] https://github.com/Kronuz/SublimeCodeIntel https://github.com/Kronuz/SublimeCodeIntel
dramaticus3 15y ago
1) install plan9port 2) use Acme 3) program !!!??? 4) profit
- slaughterhaus 15y ago
  does RoR run on plan9? I mean if it doesnt, then what am i supposed to do for step 3?
  - mhd 15y ago
    He suggested installing plan9port[1], which "just" ports some user land libraries and applications to different Unices, including OS X. So we're talking about native OS X executables here. There's also the "Acme Stand Alone Complex"[2], which - if I remember correctly - is a "virtual" Inferno OS applet which includes the Acme application. I'm not exactly agreeing that piping is the end-all, be-all of editor extensibility, but it's certainly worth giving it a try. [1]: http://swtch.com/plan9port/ http://swtch.com/plan9port/ [2]: http://www.caerwyn.com/acme/ http://www.caerwyn.com/acme/
    - dramaticus3 15y ago
      There's so much more to Acme than piping. Actions based on regex matching via the plumber for a start. Menus you can type / keep in a text file anywhere you like. No stupid colour syntax highlighting or pointless fancy shit.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
  - dramaticus3 15y ago
    Fortunately not.
ams6110 15y ago
If you are a programmer, do yourself a favor and learn vi[m] or emacs. You are then ready to hit the ground running on any platform upon which you happen to find yourself working. vi in particular is almost always available on any *nix environment unless it's been deliberately removed as part of a "hardened" configuration. Emacs also is often installed, or if not is easily obtained. Both editors are also available for Windows.
- mdonahoe 15y ago
  I just started playing around with vim. I still use Sublime for most of my editing, but I enabled Vintage mode so I can test myself occasionally. I have also run through vimtutor a few times. Finally, I made vim my default terminal editor, which forces me to use it for tasks like finishing my interactive Git rebase sessions.
veyron 15y ago
there should be a poll ... I would make it but the only editor I've used in the list from the article is MacVim
namank 15y ago
Long time Textmate user here. I'm learning emacs because of the productivity and the portability. I tried vim but gave up, the Esc key was too clunky to me. Then I tried emacs and it was way more bearable. To be sure, I still need to figure out the features other than moving the cursor around but...all in good time. Undo button is a bit weird conceptually. When does it switch to redo?
- ulisesroche 15y ago
  Try putting this in your .vimrc if you don't want to reach all the way to hit the escape key imap jj <Esc> Come back to vim :(
  - namityadav 15y ago
    This! Although I prefer jk & kj instead of jj.
    - ulisesroche 15y ago
      KJ feels pretty awesome, thanks!
  - namank 15y ago
    Interesting...thanks!
- intranation 15y ago
  It switches back to "undo the last undo" (since it's always "undo the last buffer change") when you break the chain of undo, i.e with C-f or a similar non-destructive command (like movement). See: http://www.gnu.org/s/libtool/manual/emacs/Undo.html http://www.gnu.org/s/libtool/manual/emacs/Undo.html
- tednaleid 15y ago
  I agree that Esc is clunky, but most people don't know that ctrl-c has the same behavior. If you remap your caps-lock key to ctrl, it's a very natural keystroke (at least for me) where you don't need to leave the home row.
hmart 15y ago
Some years ago wanted to try Textmate but then couldn't afford to buy a Mac. Being multiplatform is a plus for Vim, Sublime and Komodo. Not being is a deal breaker for Textmate (Mac) and Notepad++ (Windows). Also love the fact that with just one license I can run Sublime on OS X, Linux and Windows so thinks it's not expensive.
- Derbasti 15y ago
  Yeah. Cross platform availability is definitely a must these days. For some time, E-texteditor looked like it could be Textmate on Windows. By now it is just as much vaporware as Textmate itself, though. A pity, really.
jfb 15y ago
I understand what the Aquamacs people are doing, but I think it's a big mistake. What makes Emacs so useful is not adherence to platform standards, but that it is a Lisp runtime with a lot of highly specialized text manipulation primitives that people have been hacking on for years. It's an autarky wherever it runs, so let it be. I'm as big a proponent of the Macengeist (or whatever you want to call the ineffable quality that makes a good Macintosh application) as anyone I know, but Emacs is it's own world. Best to use straightforward Emacs 23 or 24 as a portal into that world, rather than trying to shoehorn alien concepts into it. Now, building it on OS X can be a PITA -- not that it's not fully supported, but some stuff could be in better locations than the hated /usr/local. But that's an argument against myself that I'd prefer not to have at this exact moment.
- pivo 15y ago
  You don't have to build emacs to get a modern version without all the Aquamacs hoo-ha. I've been using the build at http://emacsformacosx.com/ http://emacsformacosx.com/ ever since carbon emacs was discontinued. It's a nice, no surprises build.
  - jfb 15y ago
    No, I was more referring to how you have to override a bunch of environment variables in the build and do some edits to Makefile.in to prevent irritating warnings about non-existent directories when you build it yourself. There's nothing wrong at all about http://emacsformacosx.com http://emacsformacosx.com.
- gcv 15y ago
  Building GNU Emacs 23 on OS X is trivial. ./configure --with-ns && make && make install This builds an Emacs.app, which you can then drag into /Applications. Nothing goes into /usr/local.
  - jfb 15y ago
    Start it up from the terminal -nw and it complains about a non-existent libexec directory under the source directory. EDIT: They may well have fixed this recently. I'll rebuild and see.
jbrowning 15y ago
Sublime Text 2 actually comes bundled plugin that enables vi keybindings. More info here: http://www.sublimetext.com/docs/2/vintage.html http://www.sublimetext.com/docs/2/vintage.html Here, have some cake.
zmanji 15y ago
I've been using MacVim on a daily basis lately and I don't get why everyone is so excited about Sublime Text 2. Does it have git integration, VCS integration, autocomplete, good plugin management, etc? Or is it just a better Textmate?
- schwuk 15y ago
  Yes, to all of those. I've been using MacVim for ages, but after trying out Sublime Text 2 for a few days, installing a couple of plugins (a pep8 & pylint checker, and a git one), and learning most of the shortcuts I need, I'm completely hooked. The minimap is just the icing on the cake. Now if only I could find a Bazaar plugin...
  - zmanji 15y ago
    Where can I get information about setting/configuring Sublime ? I would like to try it out but only if I can figure out how to set it up the "right" way. For MacVim I just read one of the numerous blog posts on setting up vundle and reading a few other people's .vimrc files.
    - schwuk 15y ago
      Apart from installing the plugins (details depend on the plugin, but basically git clone into the right path), I've not done anything else but learn the shortcuts. Sublime Text 2 works the way (split views, Command-T, pyflakes etc.) that I wanted without all the configuring that was needed in (Mac)Vim.
daegloe 15y ago
Has anyone had success with (the somewhat recently released) UltraEdit for Mac? I've used UE on Windows for many years and had been quite happy. When I made the switch to OS X, I continued to do much of my coding in UE via a Windows VM. Looking to finally kick the VM habit, now that Outlook for Mac is available, and selecting a native OS X text/code editor remains the most significant challenge. Sticking with UE would seem to be the easiest approach, but curious if there is any feedback from the community.
uriel 15y ago
No mention of acme? :( Rob Pike and Russ Cox both use acme on OS X. See http://acme.cat-v.org http://acme.cat-v.org
ferostar 15y ago
No comments on Chocolat? Seems very nice
- alanh 15y ago
  It is nice! Still very alpha though. I post invites to http://simp.ly/publish/kkhBKb http://simp.ly/publish/kkhBKb when I get ’em. Or request your own on ##chocolat (two hashes) on Freenode.
LVB 15y ago
The reason I switched from TextMate to Vim was simple: portability. I can keep my environments at work (Windows) and home (OSX) the same. Editors naturally prompt a deep investment in studying, plug-in finding, and muscle memory if you really want to use them to their fullest. I didn't want to split my investment between TextMate and <some Windows editor>, so I started the long process of getting familiar with Vim. I do miss some of the native flavor of TextMate, but the comfort of having my entire suite of plug-ins and shortcuts apply virtually anywhere (e.g. logged into some VPS) is really helpful. If I was mostly in OSX it would be a different story, but for the cross-platform developer, I really think the Vim and Emacs options are the way to go.
patrickod 15y ago
I started my coding on OS X with TextMate, in the time when releases were frequent. I spent a summer working a job where local development was not particularly easy and so I spent a lot of time in remote vim sessions over ssh. While it took a little adjusting and learning to get to the same level of productive as with TextMate I've never looked back. The ability to sit down at any machine and know that Vim is most likely installed is really really useful.
singingwolfboy 15y ago
I just tried Vico (free trial downloadable from the website), and damn is it nice. I'm a huge fan of ST2, and I've been playing around with Vintage mode, but so far it just isn't enough for me: my poor fingers get confused by Vim operations that aren't supported. Vico has much better Vim support (although still not complete), and it's just as shiny as ST2 to boot. Anyone else have experiences with Vico to share?
- scelerat 15y ago
  I was so enthused by Vico that I wrote a fairly wordy review about it in August. Added some corrections and notes recently. Feel free to add/contribute/fork. I think it's a great editor, with just a few minor shortcomings which I hope will be addressed soon. https://github.com/scelerat/vico_review/blob/master/vico_review.md https://github.com/scelerat/vico_review/blob/master/vico_rev...
- shadowfiend 15y ago
  Vico basically rocks my planet. It's got shortcomings, but it's scriptable using Nu, and you have access to all of Cocoa when scripting, so there's definitely room for big, awesome improvements. For example, I reimplemented a subset of the zz/zt/zb functionality in just a few lines of Nu (https://github.com/Shadowfiend/vico-fill-in-the-blanks.tmbundle https://github.com/Shadowfiend/vico-fill-in-the-blanks.tmbun...), added the ability to run an external console process and pipe its output to a vico buffer in a few more (https://github.com/Shadowfiend/pointy-haired-boss.tmbundle https://github.com/Shadowfiend/pointy-haired-boss.tmbundle) and then implemented support for Scala's simple-build-tool on top of that in a few more (https://github.com/Shadowfiend/simple-build-tool.tmbundle https://github.com/Shadowfiend/simple-build-tool.tmbundle). 250 lines of Nu altogether. Epically awesome. I'm still missing a couple of key functions, especially `` when doing searches, but vico is already awesome and can only become more so with progress.
- msutherl 15y ago
  I was going to write that I don't use Vico because it lacks the interface polish of other Mac editors like TextMate, but I just downloaded the latest demo and I'm happy to see that the interface is improved dramatically! The only remaining issue for me is that panes are separated by a needlessly wide and visually distracting divider. Definitely my favorite now of the post-TM editors. Still use Vim in Terminal.app though.
ary 15y ago
I, for one, am astonished at quality and release frequency Jon Skinner (the author of Sublime Text 2) has been able to achieve. Perhaps he has help, but that doesn't appear to be the case. He has made steady, incremental, and visible progress that keeps giving people reasons to buy his product. Here's to hoping he figures out how to make the configuration a little easier for non-programmer types to deal with.
- pjriot 15y ago
  You've piqued my curiosity. (and exposed my seemingly limited imagination) What are you using a text editor like sublime for other than coding?
  - ary 15y ago
    All general editing. Blog posts, notes, etc. I stick to a regular text editor for all editing.
- pkulak 15y ago
  I checked it out a few months ago, and it looked awesome, but it was missing too many basic features (like right clicking a folder to create a new file or showing the current file in the file tree) so I went back to TM. I just took another look last week and literally every single issue I used to have with it has been fixed. The pace of development is amazing. I had no problem parting with my $59.
techiferous 15y ago
I installed Kod a month or two ago. It's buggy and crashes all the time. Needless to say, I don't program on it (I use TextMate) but for what I use it for (cheatsheet reference) it's fine.
signalsignal 15y ago
I use Jedit. I find the ease of macro creation and the ability to edit the subsequent macro file to be the big seller for me.
ginzasparrow 15y ago
Why would any programmer ever risk learning a proprietary/closed source text editor? You're putting your most important tool at the mercy of some corporation or individual.
- fredoliveira 15y ago
  While I can understand the principle that motivates your comment, I disagree. You could say the same thing about an operating system, a particular computer brand, the online services you use - anything. If whatever tool you use makes you more productive, it has a positive impact on your work, meaning you should most definitely use it. I seldom think about whether something is closed or open if it helps me actually get things done. Why would I pick anything else (open or closed source) based on an economic principle if it made me worse at my job?
- danssig 15y ago
  A text editor or an IDE? An IDE can make you many times more productive than you could ever be in a text editor.
scelerat 15y ago
This is a nice overview. I have been a happy user of Vico for the past two months after years of putting up with Textmate's lame undo. I recommend it if you are comfortable with vi/vim/macvim but want a more Maclike interface plus Textmate bundles and theme support.
mkramlich 15y ago
I could have sworn this was one of those "solved" problem spaces. :)
billforsternz 15y ago
Slickedit has been around an awful long time. It's always looked like a very professional product, but it gets no love in fora like this. Anyone know why ?
_mrc 15y ago
I feel sad for anyone who refers to emacs and vim as dinosaurs. I feel sadder for anyone unfamiliar with emacs and vim dismissing because they're old tools, and missing out.

142 points by hukl 15y ago

This article is a little too light on details. In particular Kod seems to have stagnated completely, there has been no updates to the source tree since June 20th, and even before that the updates were very light. Kod is an interesting idea, but in it's current state I didn't find it very usable.

Groxx 15y ago
And a week late on the TextMate 2 announcement: http://blog.macromates.com/2011/whats-next/ http://blog.macromates.com/2011/whats-next/
- billforsternz 15y ago
  Not at all, he mentions the announcement and includes the link in the article.

nestlequ1k 15y ago

100% agree with his conclusion. For textmate fans who havent been able to make the jump to vim or emacs, try sublime text 2. It blows away textmate in every dept, and is incredibly extendable. Theres nothing out there thats more powerful (aside from vim/emacs)

cormullion 15y ago
Even in the documentation department?
- danieldk 15y ago
  Well, nearly all settings are documented in: Packages/Default/*.sublime-settings All default keyboard shortcuts are in: Packages/Default/*.sublime-keymap So, yes, there is plenty of documentation, but not on the website ;).
  - cormullion 15y ago
    Indeed, there are some comments in the config files... :) Vim and BBEdit have the best documentation: http://www.barebones.com/support/bbedit/manual.html http://www.barebones.com/support/bbedit/manual.html http://www.truth.sk/vim/vimbook-OPL.pdf http://www.truth.sk/vim/vimbook-OPL.pdf TextMate's manual isn't too bad: http://manual.macromates.com/en/all_pages.html http://manual.macromates.com/en/all_pages.html
- ary 15y ago
  The documentation isn't terrible, but it is certainly lacking. After it escapes beta I imagine things will progress in the documentation department.
- shawndumas 15y ago
  http://sublimetext.info/docs/en/ http://sublimetext.info/docs/en/

LeafStorm 15y ago

I would just like to throw in that the major obstacle to my finding an editor on Mac OS X has been the pricetag involved with most of the more popular editors. Sure, $60 isn't much if you already have a stable programming job, but I am a college student (which is financially the exact opposite of a stable programming job), and as a college student I am generally highly adverse to paying for things (especially software, since I "grew up" as a programmer among Linux and OSS). That said, TextWrangler is a decent option if you aren't in the mood to spend money. The only thing I miss about other editors from TextWrangler is an actual file browser that works like Gedit's instead of "you can only have one file open from the file browser at once."

deleted 15y ago
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dongsheng 15y ago
Seriously, if you want value of money, learn vim or emacs, they kick any $60 worth editors.
- timtadh 15y ago
  Or you know, (re)install linux and use any of the great text editors available on that platform. I think linux is the best platform for CS types in college.
  - swah 15y ago
    Like vim and emacs.
  - frou_dh 15y ago
    Since vim and emacs run fine on OS X, do you mean GUI ones? I think Linux is the worst platform in terms of GUI experience.
    - rat 15y ago
      why? also kate is a very nice editor gui editor(mainly linux but probably runs on os x/windows -because of kde portability)

goshakkk 15y ago

Agree with the conclusion. I used TextMate for a while. Then I came to Sublime Text 2 and think it's the best editor ever.

frou_dh 15y ago

The Sublime Text 2 developer is wonderfully responsive. I've emailed suggestions twice and they were both implemented and in short order. I was disappointed that discussions on the Mac-centric 5by5 podcast network framed BBEdit as the only place to go from TextMate. Granted, BBEdit has a history of not being abandoned, but it's clearly near the end of its evolution while bright new things like Sublime are blazing forward.

sigzero 15y ago
BBEdit: I keep hoping "the next version" brings it up to speed.
ary 15y ago
Which Mac-centric 5by5 podcast are you talking about? If it's "The Talk Show" keep in mind that John Gruber used to work for Bare Bones Software (the makers of BBEdit), so take his recommendation with a grain of salt. I'll repeat myself from other comments here on HN. Sublime Text 2 is amazing and worth every penny of the $59 it costs.
- frou_dh 15y ago
  IIRC Hypercritical, Build & Analyze and Back to Work. 5by5 is packed with Mac nerds! I stopped subscribing to The Talk Show during its original run because John's manner was so lethargic. I like his site but not his podcast.
getsat 15y ago
Sublime Text 2 is the cat's ass. Oh, how I've longed for multi-file editing in Textmate for so many years...
LVB 15y ago
I agree about the short shrift Sublime Text 2 was given on 5by5. I'd expect that those hosts who are happy with BBEdit or whatever will sing their editor's praises, but it was more annoying that Marco's investigation of TextMate alternatives was effectively to try BBEdit for a few days and then go back to TM1.

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cubicle67 15y ago

I've been on a Mac a few years and tried a few editors, so (for what it's worth) here's my 2c. Main use case is scripting and Rails development. Smultron: Used this a bit. not bad but I didn't really take to it. Missing a number of features Vi: still use it regularly, but I don't have much skill with it. Extra handy for quick editing of a single file (I use the command line a lot so vi is convenient) Aquamacs/Emacs: Gave this a shot but really had no idea how to use it. Gave up in the end Netbeans: Been using this for years and found it mostly the best fir for my needs. Looked around when Orace took it over and ended up with... Rubymine: Excellent. Great fit for me, although I'm still on 3.1 as the newer releases run like molasses on my aging macbook. It's a bit heavyweight, but it has a ton of really useful features. Kod: Showed great promise as a Scite replacement but seems to have been abandoned. (Scite was what I used in Windows for years. fantastic once you change the default fonts) Texmate: Used the demo, couldn't see what it offered over netbeans GEdit: Used this all the time in Linux and was surprised to find it runs fine out of the box on the Mac! Great for reading extra large files like long logs etc. Textwrangler: For some reason I really can't get to liking this. I give it a shot again every now and then but it just doesn't seem to work the way I do Coda: Looks lovely but I just couldn't get over the price.

dongsheng 15y ago
> GEdit: Used this all the time in Linux and was surprised to find it runs fine out of the box on the Mac! Great for reading extra large files like long logs etc. Does Gedit for require X11?
- natesm 15y ago
  There is/was a Cocoa build of GTK, so it's probably possible to build it.
- cubicle67 15y ago
  I honestly have no idea, but I guess so. Here's the page http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/ http://projects.gnome.org/gedit/ link to dmg is on the rhs. I was very pleased to see it looks just like gedit should (they haven't os-x-ified it)
15y ago

chicagobob 15y ago

FWIW: I use XCode for all Objective-C development, TextMate for almost everything else, and BBEdit to open large files (IMO the single biggest area of weakness for TextMate). I've tried other editors, but 3 covers everything I need.

Derbasti 15y ago
I tried to use Texmate like that for a while but ultimately, not having a sensible undo and the kind of sucky non-regex incremental search blew it for me.

boernsj 15y ago

Komodo Edit (http://www.activestate.com/komodo-edit http://www.activestate.com/komodo-edit) anyone?

raarky 15y ago
yes! komodo edit is awesome

SebMortelmans 15y ago

how do you write such article without using screenshots :s

JonnieCache 15y ago

I've just had a look at sublime text 2, and it's everything I'm looking for in a textmate replacement. After several abortive attempts to enjoy coding in macvim, I can't believe I didn't try this sooner. EDIT: does anyone know how I can get two different projects in different sides of a split in the same window? I know this is going against OSX's window management paradigm, but I'm sick of pressing CMD ~ all day, trying to mentally model a stack of windows in LRU/z-order is a cognitive burden I can do without. EDIT: I love how the Preferences menu item just opens the config file. EDIT: OMG OMG it actually goes to the most recently open tab on tab close by default, rather than the one on the left! Hallelujah! It kills me that browsers still don't do this.

frou_dh 15y ago
Goto Anything and its composability[0] deserves an EDIT :) [0] http://www.sublimetext.com/blog/articles/sublime-text-2-public-alpha http://www.sublimetext.com/blog/articles/sublime-text-2-publ...
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  Also the minimap is, in the words of my mate Gaz, "fucking leet."
  - hmottestad 15y ago
    1337
lunaru 15y ago
I can't be the only one waiting eagerly for sublime text to include transparency/alpha-channel backgrounds right? That was one of the big sticking points for me in TextMate, and also one of the big reasons vim on OSX terminal is my secondary option. I know it sounds like a silly thing to dwell on, but having my editor slightly transparent helps a lot when dealing with UI work.
nrbafna 15y ago
If anyone is trying out Sublime Text for the first time, also refer http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/tools-and-tips/sublime-text-2-tips-and-tricks/ http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/tools-and-tips/sublime-tex...

sodiumphosphate 15y ago

I just recently switched to Sublime Text 2, and a after a solid week of coding in it, I must say I'm hooked. It's the best editor I've ever used. I'm writing Boo, both client-side (Unity3D) and server-side (between Mongrel2 and Redis), and all it took was for me to drop in the Boo TextMate bundle and away we went. The Boo bundle is outdated and needs some love, and Unity integration is missing, but Sublime is so nice that it really seems worth the effort of getting these things set up (when I can get around to it). For now, however, I'm quite happy with it. Before the switch I jumped around (angrily) between Unitron (Unity's Smultron fork), Smultron, MonoDevelop (still sucks on Mac), GEdit (great editor, but GTK looks like shit on Mac), and tried several others without satisfaction. Sublime is like a breath of fresh air.

JSig 15y ago

I really like the package management options in emacs. Between Package.el (baked into emacs 24) and el-get I can include almost anything I need by configuring my dotfile. Packages from marmalade, elpa, git repo, hg, emacs wiki, etc... I can blow away my .emacs.d and, when I restart, all of my configured packages are retrieved and installed. Bliss!

hackermom 15y ago

I'm the Smultron/Makefile type.

shabble 15y ago

For Emacs users, Plain ol' GNU Emacs[1] is almost as tickbox compliant as Aquamacs, and has the benefits of not breaking a whole lot of existing stuff by trying to retrofit it with a 'Mac OSX User Experience'. If you're familiar with standard emacs settings[2] (and have the appropriate vitriol for those who falter into cua-mode), then http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AquamacsFAQ http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AquamacsFAQ might be of use. [1] Fairly recent binary builds are maintained at http://emacsformacosx.com/ http://emacsformacosx.com/ [2] or, more probably, a config built over several years of slow accretion.

magoghm 15y ago
I use Aquamacs with Unity to develop games. Opening a script file into an Aquamacs buffer by just clicking on it in Unity is very useful to me.
- shabble 15y ago
  That should be fairly achievable with either-macs. I started out with Aquamacs, but ended up getting annoyed with enough of the differences that I finally switched back to the (then Carbon, now Cocoa) emacs. Most of the useful settings live in the ns- customize-variable land. ; open all new files in existing frame (setq ns-pop-up-frames nil) ; make Cmd act as meta. (setq ns-command-modifier 'meta) ; ... C-h v ns- TAB TAB

jkmcf 15y ago

The main features Sublime Text 2 needs before I give them money (since I already have TM and Rubymine): - code navigation: The main reason I deal with rubymine cpu and memory hogging. - intellisense-ishness: The 2nd reason I deal with rubymine. - better preferences interface: way too emacsish, but is probably much easier for cross-platform compatibility. The only reason I don't use emacs is its abominable configuration process. I used to use Lucid/XEmacs way back when, but I lost whatever emacs mojo I had gained when I was "forced" to use Windows.

kemayo 15y ago
There is a plugin called SublimeCodeIntel[1], which basically rips the code intelligence stuff out of Komodo and packages it up for Sublime. [1] https://github.com/Kronuz/SublimeCodeIntel https://github.com/Kronuz/SublimeCodeIntel

dramaticus3 15y ago

1) install plan9port 2) use Acme 3) program !!!??? 4) profit

slaughterhaus 15y ago
does RoR run on plan9? I mean if it doesnt, then what am i supposed to do for step 3?
- mhd 15y ago
  He suggested installing plan9port[1], which "just" ports some user land libraries and applications to different Unices, including OS X. So we're talking about native OS X executables here. There's also the "Acme Stand Alone Complex"[2], which - if I remember correctly - is a "virtual" Inferno OS applet which includes the Acme application. I'm not exactly agreeing that piping is the end-all, be-all of editor extensibility, but it's certainly worth giving it a try. [1]: http://swtch.com/plan9port/ http://swtch.com/plan9port/ [2]: http://www.caerwyn.com/acme/ http://www.caerwyn.com/acme/
  - dramaticus3 15y ago
    There's so much more to Acme than piping. Actions based on regex matching via the plumber for a start. Menus you can type / keep in a text file anywhere you like. No stupid colour syntax highlighting or pointless fancy shit.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
- dramaticus3 15y ago
  Fortunately not.

ams6110 15y ago

If you are a programmer, do yourself a favor and learn vi[m] or emacs. You are then ready to hit the ground running on any platform upon which you happen to find yourself working. vi in particular is almost always available on any *nix environment unless it's been deliberately removed as part of a "hardened" configuration. Emacs also is often installed, or if not is easily obtained. Both editors are also available for Windows.

mdonahoe 15y ago
I just started playing around with vim. I still use Sublime for most of my editing, but I enabled Vintage mode so I can test myself occasionally. I have also run through vimtutor a few times. Finally, I made vim my default terminal editor, which forces me to use it for tasks like finishing my interactive Git rebase sessions.

veyron 15y ago

there should be a poll ... I would make it but the only editor I've used in the list from the article is MacVim

namank 15y ago

Long time Textmate user here. I'm learning emacs because of the productivity and the portability. I tried vim but gave up, the Esc key was too clunky to me. Then I tried emacs and it was way more bearable. To be sure, I still need to figure out the features other than moving the cursor around but...all in good time. Undo button is a bit weird conceptually. When does it switch to redo?

ulisesroche 15y ago
Try putting this in your .vimrc if you don't want to reach all the way to hit the escape key imap jj <Esc> Come back to vim :(
- namityadav 15y ago
  This! Although I prefer jk & kj instead of jj.
  - ulisesroche 15y ago
    KJ feels pretty awesome, thanks!
- namank 15y ago
  Interesting...thanks!
intranation 15y ago
It switches back to "undo the last undo" (since it's always "undo the last buffer change") when you break the chain of undo, i.e with C-f or a similar non-destructive command (like movement). See: http://www.gnu.org/s/libtool/manual/emacs/Undo.html http://www.gnu.org/s/libtool/manual/emacs/Undo.html
tednaleid 15y ago
I agree that Esc is clunky, but most people don't know that ctrl-c has the same behavior. If you remap your caps-lock key to ctrl, it's a very natural keystroke (at least for me) where you don't need to leave the home row.

hmart 15y ago

Some years ago wanted to try Textmate but then couldn't afford to buy a Mac. Being multiplatform is a plus for Vim, Sublime and Komodo. Not being is a deal breaker for Textmate (Mac) and Notepad++ (Windows). Also love the fact that with just one license I can run Sublime on OS X, Linux and Windows so thinks it's not expensive.

Derbasti 15y ago
Yeah. Cross platform availability is definitely a must these days. For some time, E-texteditor looked like it could be Textmate on Windows. By now it is just as much vaporware as Textmate itself, though. A pity, really.

jfb 15y ago

I understand what the Aquamacs people are doing, but I think it's a big mistake. What makes Emacs so useful is not adherence to platform standards, but that it is a Lisp runtime with a lot of highly specialized text manipulation primitives that people have been hacking on for years. It's an autarky wherever it runs, so let it be. I'm as big a proponent of the Macengeist (or whatever you want to call the ineffable quality that makes a good Macintosh application) as anyone I know, but Emacs is it's own world. Best to use straightforward Emacs 23 or 24 as a portal into that world, rather than trying to shoehorn alien concepts into it. Now, building it on OS X can be a PITA -- not that it's not fully supported, but some stuff could be in better locations than the hated /usr/local. But that's an argument against myself that I'd prefer not to have at this exact moment.

pivo 15y ago
You don't have to build emacs to get a modern version without all the Aquamacs hoo-ha. I've been using the build at http://emacsformacosx.com/ http://emacsformacosx.com/ ever since carbon emacs was discontinued. It's a nice, no surprises build.
- jfb 15y ago
  No, I was more referring to how you have to override a bunch of environment variables in the build and do some edits to Makefile.in to prevent irritating warnings about non-existent directories when you build it yourself. There's nothing wrong at all about http://emacsformacosx.com http://emacsformacosx.com.
gcv 15y ago
Building GNU Emacs 23 on OS X is trivial. ./configure --with-ns && make && make install This builds an Emacs.app, which you can then drag into /Applications. Nothing goes into /usr/local.
- jfb 15y ago
  Start it up from the terminal -nw and it complains about a non-existent libexec directory under the source directory. EDIT: They may well have fixed this recently. I'll rebuild and see.

jbrowning 15y ago

Sublime Text 2 actually comes bundled plugin that enables vi keybindings. More info here: http://www.sublimetext.com/docs/2/vintage.html http://www.sublimetext.com/docs/2/vintage.html Here, have some cake.

zmanji 15y ago

I've been using MacVim on a daily basis lately and I don't get why everyone is so excited about Sublime Text 2. Does it have git integration, VCS integration, autocomplete, good plugin management, etc? Or is it just a better Textmate?

schwuk 15y ago
Yes, to all of those. I've been using MacVim for ages, but after trying out Sublime Text 2 for a few days, installing a couple of plugins (a pep8 & pylint checker, and a git one), and learning most of the shortcuts I need, I'm completely hooked. The minimap is just the icing on the cake. Now if only I could find a Bazaar plugin...
- zmanji 15y ago
  Where can I get information about setting/configuring Sublime ? I would like to try it out but only if I can figure out how to set it up the "right" way. For MacVim I just read one of the numerous blog posts on setting up vundle and reading a few other people's .vimrc files.
  - schwuk 15y ago
    Apart from installing the plugins (details depend on the plugin, but basically git clone into the right path), I've not done anything else but learn the shortcuts. Sublime Text 2 works the way (split views, Command-T, pyflakes etc.) that I wanted without all the configuring that was needed in (Mac)Vim.

daegloe 15y ago

Has anyone had success with (the somewhat recently released) UltraEdit for Mac? I've used UE on Windows for many years and had been quite happy. When I made the switch to OS X, I continued to do much of my coding in UE via a Windows VM. Looking to finally kick the VM habit, now that Outlook for Mac is available, and selecting a native OS X text/code editor remains the most significant challenge. Sticking with UE would seem to be the easiest approach, but curious if there is any feedback from the community.

uriel 15y ago

No mention of acme? :( Rob Pike and Russ Cox both use acme on OS X. See http://acme.cat-v.org http://acme.cat-v.org

ferostar 15y ago

No comments on Chocolat? Seems very nice

alanh 15y ago
It is nice! Still very alpha though. I post invites to http://simp.ly/publish/kkhBKb http://simp.ly/publish/kkhBKb when I get ’em. Or request your own on ##chocolat (two hashes) on Freenode.

LVB 15y ago

The reason I switched from TextMate to Vim was simple: portability. I can keep my environments at work (Windows) and home (OSX) the same. Editors naturally prompt a deep investment in studying, plug-in finding, and muscle memory if you really want to use them to their fullest. I didn't want to split my investment between TextMate and <some Windows editor>, so I started the long process of getting familiar with Vim. I do miss some of the native flavor of TextMate, but the comfort of having my entire suite of plug-ins and shortcuts apply virtually anywhere (e.g. logged into some VPS) is really helpful. If I was mostly in OSX it would be a different story, but for the cross-platform developer, I really think the Vim and Emacs options are the way to go.

patrickod 15y ago

I started my coding on OS X with TextMate, in the time when releases were frequent. I spent a summer working a job where local development was not particularly easy and so I spent a lot of time in remote vim sessions over ssh. While it took a little adjusting and learning to get to the same level of productive as with TextMate I've never looked back. The ability to sit down at any machine and know that Vim is most likely installed is really really useful.

singingwolfboy 15y ago

I just tried Vico (free trial downloadable from the website), and damn is it nice. I'm a huge fan of ST2, and I've been playing around with Vintage mode, but so far it just isn't enough for me: my poor fingers get confused by Vim operations that aren't supported. Vico has much better Vim support (although still not complete), and it's just as shiny as ST2 to boot. Anyone else have experiences with Vico to share?

scelerat 15y ago
I was so enthused by Vico that I wrote a fairly wordy review about it in August. Added some corrections and notes recently. Feel free to add/contribute/fork. I think it's a great editor, with just a few minor shortcomings which I hope will be addressed soon. https://github.com/scelerat/vico_review/blob/master/vico_review.md https://github.com/scelerat/vico_review/blob/master/vico_rev...
shadowfiend 15y ago
Vico basically rocks my planet. It's got shortcomings, but it's scriptable using Nu, and you have access to all of Cocoa when scripting, so there's definitely room for big, awesome improvements. For example, I reimplemented a subset of the zz/zt/zb functionality in just a few lines of Nu (https://github.com/Shadowfiend/vico-fill-in-the-blanks.tmbundle https://github.com/Shadowfiend/vico-fill-in-the-blanks.tmbun...), added the ability to run an external console process and pipe its output to a vico buffer in a few more (https://github.com/Shadowfiend/pointy-haired-boss.tmbundle https://github.com/Shadowfiend/pointy-haired-boss.tmbundle) and then implemented support for Scala's simple-build-tool on top of that in a few more (https://github.com/Shadowfiend/simple-build-tool.tmbundle https://github.com/Shadowfiend/simple-build-tool.tmbundle). 250 lines of Nu altogether. Epically awesome. I'm still missing a couple of key functions, especially `` when doing searches, but vico is already awesome and can only become more so with progress.
msutherl 15y ago
I was going to write that I don't use Vico because it lacks the interface polish of other Mac editors like TextMate, but I just downloaded the latest demo and I'm happy to see that the interface is improved dramatically! The only remaining issue for me is that panes are separated by a needlessly wide and visually distracting divider. Definitely my favorite now of the post-TM editors. Still use Vim in Terminal.app though.

ary 15y ago

I, for one, am astonished at quality and release frequency Jon Skinner (the author of Sublime Text 2) has been able to achieve. Perhaps he has help, but that doesn't appear to be the case. He has made steady, incremental, and visible progress that keeps giving people reasons to buy his product. Here's to hoping he figures out how to make the configuration a little easier for non-programmer types to deal with.

pjriot 15y ago
You've piqued my curiosity. (and exposed my seemingly limited imagination) What are you using a text editor like sublime for other than coding?
- ary 15y ago
  All general editing. Blog posts, notes, etc. I stick to a regular text editor for all editing.
pkulak 15y ago
I checked it out a few months ago, and it looked awesome, but it was missing too many basic features (like right clicking a folder to create a new file or showing the current file in the file tree) so I went back to TM. I just took another look last week and literally every single issue I used to have with it has been fixed. The pace of development is amazing. I had no problem parting with my $59.

techiferous 15y ago

I installed Kod a month or two ago. It's buggy and crashes all the time. Needless to say, I don't program on it (I use TextMate) but for what I use it for (cheatsheet reference) it's fine.

signalsignal 15y ago

I use Jedit. I find the ease of macro creation and the ability to edit the subsequent macro file to be the big seller for me.

ginzasparrow 15y ago

Why would any programmer ever risk learning a proprietary/closed source text editor? You're putting your most important tool at the mercy of some corporation or individual.

fredoliveira 15y ago
While I can understand the principle that motivates your comment, I disagree. You could say the same thing about an operating system, a particular computer brand, the online services you use - anything. If whatever tool you use makes you more productive, it has a positive impact on your work, meaning you should most definitely use it. I seldom think about whether something is closed or open if it helps me actually get things done. Why would I pick anything else (open or closed source) based on an economic principle if it made me worse at my job?
danssig 15y ago
A text editor or an IDE? An IDE can make you many times more productive than you could ever be in a text editor.

scelerat 15y ago

This is a nice overview. I have been a happy user of Vico for the past two months after years of putting up with Textmate's lame undo. I recommend it if you are comfortable with vi/vim/macvim but want a more Maclike interface plus Textmate bundles and theme support.

mkramlich 15y ago

I could have sworn this was one of those "solved" problem spaces. :)

billforsternz 15y ago

Slickedit has been around an awful long time. It's always looked like a very professional product, but it gets no love in fora like this. Anyone know why ?

_mrc 15y ago

I feel sad for anyone who refers to emacs and vim as dinosaurs. I feel sadder for anyone unfamiliar with emacs and vim dismissing because they're old tools, and missing out.