6 ms·

Entrapment is illegal here too. The FBI, in order to strengthen its case against that exact defense, -always- gives the "suspect" multiple opportunities to sto

by mml 15y ago

Entrapment is illegal here too. The FBI, in order to strengthen its case against that exact defense, -always- gives the "suspect" multiple opportunities to stop himself. Of course, if the suspect does stop, the FBI then tries to get him to continue, or finds another gull. It's pretty gross.

0x12 15y ago
God forbid that one day they mess up the 'caught you at the last moment' bit and one of these succeeds. I wonder how the FBI will respond then. The FBI should concentrate on real issues, rather than to attempt to fabricate them. I understand that thoughtcrime is not punishable, it looks as though they are trying to bridge that gap by aiding the 'suspect' (word used loosely here) in every way imaginable. It makes me wonder if that means that since the FBI goes to great extremes to get these guys to become even more radical than the already were if that means the FBI is actively aiding terrorism and could be prosecuted for that through some other branch of government. Means, opportunity, those are important bits used to convict people and it looks as though these people had none of them but the FBI helpfully supplied them as well as direction. At face value it looks as if the FBI has more reason to be indicted here than the actual perp. I see the suicide bombers and other idiots as much as victims of their handlers as they are obvious criminals, these young people could presumably have been turned in a much more positive way but instead the FBI decided to bring out the worst in them. Pointless, ultimately wasteful and distracting the attention from real issues.
- JulianMorrison 15y ago
  >I wonder how the FBI will respond then. Like they did after 9/11, by begging for more power.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  > one day they mess up the 'caught you at the last moment' bid and one of these succeeds I doubt the FBI would provide any of them with real weapons and ammunition. I hope, at least. > Pointless, ultimately wasteful and distracting the attention from real issues. As much as I agree this is hardly the most effective way to deal with the AFAIK non-existent problem, it provides one deterring factor: any would-be terrorist has to think twice whether the helpful recruiter is really what he/she claims to be or an undercover FBI agent. The poor misguided soul who would fall for such a trap should, instead, be given professional counseling on more constructive ways to deal with frustration and extremist feelings.
  - 0x12 15y ago
    > I doubt the FBI would provide any of them with real weapons and ammunition. I hope, at least. If that's true then 'Your honour, the weapons were non-functional, I already knew that' would be a pretty good defense. > The poor misguided soul who would fall for such a trap should, instead, be given professional counseling on more constructive ways to deal with frustration and extremist feelings. Exactly. If the FBI has such a foolproof method of detecting radicals they should use that knowledge in a constructive way, rather than to push those individuals into a position where they will hate the country even more.
    - VMG 15y ago
      There is a This American Life episode about this with two stories about this FBI strategy. The weapons provided in both cases were inert. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/387/arms-trader-2009 http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/387/a... http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press-releases/2010/nyfo101810.htm http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press-releases/2010/nyfo101810.ht... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemant_Lakhani http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemant_Lakhani
      - 0x12 15y ago
        Well, I'm really happy they managed to convict him to no less than 47 years in prison, I'm sure that the United States is much safer now. For an encore they ought to lock up everybody else, that way you can be sure that you've caught all the terrorists too.
dalke 15y ago
More fun would be if the "suspect" reports it to the local police, who end up running a sting operation on what only later they find out is the FBI. (Which happened in an episode of the TV show "Benson." I feel old now. :) )

by mml 15y ago

0x12 15y ago

God forbid that one day they mess up the 'caught you at the last moment' bit and one of these succeeds. I wonder how the FBI will respond then. The FBI should concentrate on real issues, rather than to attempt to fabricate them. I understand that thoughtcrime is not punishable, it looks as though they are trying to bridge that gap by aiding the 'suspect' (word used loosely here) in every way imaginable. It makes me wonder if that means that since the FBI goes to great extremes to get these guys to become even more radical than the already were if that means the FBI is actively aiding terrorism and could be prosecuted for that through some other branch of government. Means, opportunity, those are important bits used to convict people and it looks as though these people had none of them but the FBI helpfully supplied them as well as direction. At face value it looks as if the FBI has more reason to be indicted here than the actual perp. I see the suicide bombers and other idiots as much as victims of their handlers as they are obvious criminals, these young people could presumably have been turned in a much more positive way but instead the FBI decided to bring out the worst in them. Pointless, ultimately wasteful and distracting the attention from real issues.

JulianMorrison 15y ago
>I wonder how the FBI will respond then. Like they did after 9/11, by begging for more power.
rbanffy 15y ago
> one day they mess up the 'caught you at the last moment' bid and one of these succeeds I doubt the FBI would provide any of them with real weapons and ammunition. I hope, at least. > Pointless, ultimately wasteful and distracting the attention from real issues. As much as I agree this is hardly the most effective way to deal with the AFAIK non-existent problem, it provides one deterring factor: any would-be terrorist has to think twice whether the helpful recruiter is really what he/she claims to be or an undercover FBI agent. The poor misguided soul who would fall for such a trap should, instead, be given professional counseling on more constructive ways to deal with frustration and extremist feelings.
- 0x12 15y ago
  > I doubt the FBI would provide any of them with real weapons and ammunition. I hope, at least. If that's true then 'Your honour, the weapons were non-functional, I already knew that' would be a pretty good defense. > The poor misguided soul who would fall for such a trap should, instead, be given professional counseling on more constructive ways to deal with frustration and extremist feelings. Exactly. If the FBI has such a foolproof method of detecting radicals they should use that knowledge in a constructive way, rather than to push those individuals into a position where they will hate the country even more.
  - VMG 15y ago
    There is a This American Life episode about this with two stories about this FBI strategy. The weapons provided in both cases were inert. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/387/arms-trader-2009 http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/387/a... http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press-releases/2010/nyfo101810.htm http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press-releases/2010/nyfo101810.ht... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemant_Lakhani http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemant_Lakhani
    - 0x12 15y ago
      Well, I'm really happy they managed to convict him to no less than 47 years in prison, I'm sure that the United States is much safer now. For an encore they ought to lock up everybody else, that way you can be sure that you've caught all the terrorists too.

dalke 15y ago

More fun would be if the "suspect" reports it to the local police, who end up running a sting operation on what only later they find out is the FBI. (Which happened in an episode of the TV show "Benson." I feel old now. :) )