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The issue with standards is that they only capture a very, very small part of the problem. Let‘s look at the results: NASA probably uses some of the most rigor

The issue with standards is that they only capture a very, very small part of the problem. Let‘s look at the results: NASA probably uses some of the most rigorous development and testing methods in the world, but I‘d still rather trust my life to the flight control software of SpaceX who doesn‘t give a damn about education. The banks losing data mentioned by OP are way more rigid in their hiring and certification standards than a Stripe for example. Who would you rather trust on security? My point is: I’m all for better code, but Culture trumps certification and standards every single time.

Apocryphon 5y ago
> NASA probably uses some of the most rigorous development and testing methods in the world, but I‘d still rather trust my life to the flight control software of SpaceX who doesn‘t give a damn about education. Why? Have there been any NASA manned accidents that were caused by software? There's certainly been big historical bloopers in the past involving unmanned probes, like getting metric and imperial mixed up, but doubtless NASA software quality is better now. And what is your basis that SpaceX doesn't care about education, while NASA does? Are you a hiring manager at either? > The banks losing data mentioned by OP are way more rigid in their hiring and certification standards than a Stripe for example. Who would you rather trust on security? Is that true that banks are more rigid in those standards? Or Stripe is more lax?
- thatjoeoverthr 5y ago
  There are only three deadly incidents to choose from, thankfully, and it happens they were caused by other kinds of (presumably licensed) engineers. Software incidents include a flight computer failure during the landing of Apollo 11. Another incident caused reset of their navigation computer, requiring them to recalibrate it using a tangible sextant. If we go a little beyond literal NASA, it’s not hard to find computer failures. Aside from the infamous 737 Max, we have the loss of a B-2 on takeoff, which costs the same as a space shuttle. (Thankfully the pilots ejected.) Then the famous story of the Patriot missiles’ first deployment. If I actually Google this, will I find no more?
  - jakubmazanec 5y ago
    > Software incidents include a flight computer failure during the landing of Apollo 11. How did flight computer fail during Apollo 11 landing? If you mean guidance computer and famous 1201 and 1202 errors, those were not failures, but were caused by hardware bug they left unsolved on purpose.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    If we're just talking about aerospace at this point, hasn't the F-35 flight software been notoriously buggy
- llampx 5y ago
  That's your choice, but in a space mission or in a self-driving car I'd rather not be a casualty of move fast and break things.

Apocryphon 5y ago

> NASA probably uses some of the most rigorous development and testing methods in the world, but I‘d still rather trust my life to the flight control software of SpaceX who doesn‘t give a damn about education. Why? Have there been any NASA manned accidents that were caused by software? There's certainly been big historical bloopers in the past involving unmanned probes, like getting metric and imperial mixed up, but doubtless NASA software quality is better now. And what is your basis that SpaceX doesn't care about education, while NASA does? Are you a hiring manager at either? > The banks losing data mentioned by OP are way more rigid in their hiring and certification standards than a Stripe for example. Who would you rather trust on security? Is that true that banks are more rigid in those standards? Or Stripe is more lax?

thatjoeoverthr 5y ago
There are only three deadly incidents to choose from, thankfully, and it happens they were caused by other kinds of (presumably licensed) engineers. Software incidents include a flight computer failure during the landing of Apollo 11. Another incident caused reset of their navigation computer, requiring them to recalibrate it using a tangible sextant. If we go a little beyond literal NASA, it’s not hard to find computer failures. Aside from the infamous 737 Max, we have the loss of a B-2 on takeoff, which costs the same as a space shuttle. (Thankfully the pilots ejected.) Then the famous story of the Patriot missiles’ first deployment. If I actually Google this, will I find no more?
- jakubmazanec 5y ago
  > Software incidents include a flight computer failure during the landing of Apollo 11. How did flight computer fail during Apollo 11 landing? If you mean guidance computer and famous 1201 and 1202 errors, those were not failures, but were caused by hardware bug they left unsolved on purpose.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  If we're just talking about aerospace at this point, hasn't the F-35 flight software been notoriously buggy
llampx 5y ago
That's your choice, but in a space mission or in a self-driving car I'd rather not be a casualty of move fast and break things.