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Going to jail is a lot scarier than getting a bonus clawed back and losing your job when you have enough to retire on already. Personal fines and no prison tim

Going to jail is a lot scarier than getting a bonus clawed back and losing your job when you have enough to retire on already. Personal fines and no prison time just tweak the risk/reward calculation a little bit. These executives make a lot of money, and I would guess if they are the type to do illegal behavior they wouldn't mind gambling if the reward is great enough. I could even see it making this behavior more likely to happen if it's clear that they won't go to jail for illegal behavior and all they have to worry about is a fine and losing their job.

nickff 5y ago
>"Going to jail is a lot scarier than getting a bonus clawed back and losing your job when you have enough to retire on already." Reductio ad absurdum: Getting executed is even scarier than prison, shouldn't we 'spring for' that instead? I think that a fine which meaningfully reduces an individual's means is possible, and preferable to using prison sentences to instill fear. My view is that the extreme sentences provided for in legislation are causing many non-guilty people to plead to lesser offenses, which is a real problem. I also think that we shouldn't be crowding jails and prisons with people who have committed civil offenses. What do you believe prison is for? Do you think it works?
- justinpowers 5y ago
  I’d agree if I believed they could/would take money out of their retirement accounts and somehow disallow benefitting from trusts, but that seems highly unlikely. Prison time allows for disincentivizing as well as rehabilitation. Death sentence on the other hand… Perhaps part of the problem are our prison conditions. And the minimal effort directed towards true rehabilitation. Fixing those might make prison time less ethically fraught.
- bostonsre 5y ago
  The deterrent has to be enough of a deterrent to actually deter people, else it's a negligible downside risk (like a slap on the wrist fine and job loss for this case). Yes, execution would certainly put a stop to this behavior, even more so than jail time (and could also help with prison overcrowding), but I think to err is human and execution is a little too extreme and would cause society to be unhappy and scared. Yes, I think there are a lot of extreme prison sentences in this country and we incarcerate way too many people. But I think it is ridiculous to be so lopsided with punishments and only put people without means in jail. White collar crimes like this one have a larger negative impact on society than some guy caught stealing a car and they should not get off with a slap on the wrist. I don't think prison is for rehabilitation. Some humans act incredibly selfishly and if there are no consequences to bad actions, they will act selfishly and they will have a negative impact on society. Law enforcement and criminal justice is a balancing act with no perfect right answer. It is not tenable to be too far on either end of the spectrum and I think we need to try to strike that balance where crime is deterred enough but where we don't live in a police state dystopia that causes a depressed and miserable society. I don't really know where that point is, but I am all for equitable punishment of white collar criminals.
broknbottle 5y ago
Nobody is talking about going to jail.. We're talking about Prison. Big difference.
- Lascaille 5y ago
  I looked at your other comments and they're usually quite contributory and positive, so with that in mind, what inspired this one today? Because it's just the very worst sort of annoying pedantry.

nickff 5y ago

>"Going to jail is a lot scarier than getting a bonus clawed back and losing your job when you have enough to retire on already." Reductio ad absurdum: Getting executed is even scarier than prison, shouldn't we 'spring for' that instead? I think that a fine which meaningfully reduces an individual's means is possible, and preferable to using prison sentences to instill fear. My view is that the extreme sentences provided for in legislation are causing many non-guilty people to plead to lesser offenses, which is a real problem. I also think that we shouldn't be crowding jails and prisons with people who have committed civil offenses. What do you believe prison is for? Do you think it works?

justinpowers 5y ago
I’d agree if I believed they could/would take money out of their retirement accounts and somehow disallow benefitting from trusts, but that seems highly unlikely. Prison time allows for disincentivizing as well as rehabilitation. Death sentence on the other hand… Perhaps part of the problem are our prison conditions. And the minimal effort directed towards true rehabilitation. Fixing those might make prison time less ethically fraught.
bostonsre 5y ago
The deterrent has to be enough of a deterrent to actually deter people, else it's a negligible downside risk (like a slap on the wrist fine and job loss for this case). Yes, execution would certainly put a stop to this behavior, even more so than jail time (and could also help with prison overcrowding), but I think to err is human and execution is a little too extreme and would cause society to be unhappy and scared. Yes, I think there are a lot of extreme prison sentences in this country and we incarcerate way too many people. But I think it is ridiculous to be so lopsided with punishments and only put people without means in jail. White collar crimes like this one have a larger negative impact on society than some guy caught stealing a car and they should not get off with a slap on the wrist. I don't think prison is for rehabilitation. Some humans act incredibly selfishly and if there are no consequences to bad actions, they will act selfishly and they will have a negative impact on society. Law enforcement and criminal justice is a balancing act with no perfect right answer. It is not tenable to be too far on either end of the spectrum and I think we need to try to strike that balance where crime is deterred enough but where we don't live in a police state dystopia that causes a depressed and miserable society. I don't really know where that point is, but I am all for equitable punishment of white collar criminals.

broknbottle 5y ago

Nobody is talking about going to jail.. We're talking about Prison. Big difference.

Lascaille 5y ago
I looked at your other comments and they're usually quite contributory and positive, so with that in mind, what inspired this one today? Because it's just the very worst sort of annoying pedantry.