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I thought that hospitals specifically only put you on the list if you committed to a healthy lifestyle.

by judge2020 5y ago

MathCodeLove 5y ago
It likely varies hospital to hospital and region to region. I would hope it's more often the case than not though. I'm an organ donor and I wouldn't be happy to find out that my liver went to an alcoholic that wasn't making a strong effort at sobriety.
- bradly 5y ago
  Sorry to imply he is still drinking. See my sibling reply to yours, but it is not sticking to the diet which is causing his issues.
- sacrosancty 5y ago
  Do you know how arrogant that is? Alcoholics aren't people who deserve to die because of some kind of moral failing. Very often they're alcoholic because of other mental health problems or abuse. Would you want to deny a clininically depressed person your liver because they might commit suicide?
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    Im a recovering alcoholic myself, don't lecture me. I didn't say they deserve to die. But if they can't stay sober they don't deserve a liver over someone else who may need it more.
    - sacrosancty 5y ago
      You don't represent alcoholics. Personal experience gives you a bias, not a justification for being condescending. Medical decisions are not and should not be based on moral judgements of the patient's behavior. You're now changing your idea to add "over someone who may need it more", which is different, and I'm not disagreeing with that. It's the same as favoring young or healthy people because they're likely to gain more life extension from a transplant when the rest of their body is working OK.
      - MathCodeLove 5y ago
        I assumed that was implicit given the context of the conversation (a comment up the chain discussing their uncle who got higher priority because he continued to make poor lifestyle choices). Obviously I'd still rather my liver go to the aforementioned alcoholic than into the ground, but they wouldn't be my first choice. There was and is no condescension present. I don't look down on them just like I wouldn't look down on a 90 year old man whose liver is failing from natural causes. Neither would be my first choice for recipients of my liver.
bradly 5y ago
He says he is committed to and I assume he has good intentions. He isn’t drinking or smoking, but water intake, salt intake, and red meat have been more challenging for his willpower/discipline. Also, I have no idea if matters or not but he is wealthy (low eight digits) as well.
- forum_ghost 5y ago
  Neither of those is a medical contradiction to receiving a transplant. Smoking is the big no-no because it is fairly well proven to impair healing and increases chances of failure. Evidence against red meat is very weak, and contradictory. Some studies show no harmful effects from non-processed red meat at all. In fact, there is just as much evidence against plant-based diets (they just aren't discussed widely due to the prevailing politics around CO2 etc), basically it's all just noise. Light alcohol use is absolutely fine in almost every case, and John Hopkins routinely does liver transplants for dependent alcoholics with an alcohol-related liver disease. You should look up some centenarians cases, some lived on a diet of nothing but beer, waffles and blood sausages daily for several decades, and then had a nice healthy liver on autopsy at 100+ y.o., could've been from someone in their 20s. Such is life.
  - calvano915 5y ago
    Instead of contradiction, I believe you mean contraindication. I'm also in agreement that cessation of alcohol and smoking are much more reasonable requirements for placement on the list than other dietary patterns that are highly individual regarding effects on overall health.
- kelnos 5y ago
  Honestly I can't find any fault here. Giving up the drinking and smoking has probably been monumentally difficult, and it's amazing that he's been able to do that. That alone tells me he is committed to getting healthier. The diet stuff... honestly, nutrition "science" is full of contradictions. Sure, too much of anything is probably bad for you, but I don't think diet concerns should be a blocker for receiving a transplant. At any rate, sorry you and your family has to go through this, and best wishes for your uncle's recovery.
nineteen999 5y ago
Anecdotally, an ex-partner of mine here in Australia was denied a transplant for several years due to her heavy marijuana use, but was eventually allowed a transplant. Unfortunately her body rejected it and it had to be removed, and she passed away a year later.

I thought that hospitals specifically only put you on the list if you committed to a healthy lifestyle.

It likely varies hospital to hospital and region to region. I would hope it's more often the case than not though. I'm an organ donor and I wouldn't be happy to find out that my liver went to an alcoholic that wasn't making a strong effort at sobriety.

bradly 5y ago
Sorry to imply he is still drinking. See my sibling reply to yours, but it is not sticking to the diet which is causing his issues.
sacrosancty 5y ago
Do you know how arrogant that is? Alcoholics aren't people who deserve to die because of some kind of moral failing. Very often they're alcoholic because of other mental health problems or abuse. Would you want to deny a clininically depressed person your liver because they might commit suicide?
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  Im a recovering alcoholic myself, don't lecture me. I didn't say they deserve to die. But if they can't stay sober they don't deserve a liver over someone else who may need it more.
  - sacrosancty 5y ago
    You don't represent alcoholics. Personal experience gives you a bias, not a justification for being condescending. Medical decisions are not and should not be based on moral judgements of the patient's behavior. You're now changing your idea to add "over someone who may need it more", which is different, and I'm not disagreeing with that. It's the same as favoring young or healthy people because they're likely to gain more life extension from a transplant when the rest of their body is working OK.
    - MathCodeLove 5y ago
      I assumed that was implicit given the context of the conversation (a comment up the chain discussing their uncle who got higher priority because he continued to make poor lifestyle choices). Obviously I'd still rather my liver go to the aforementioned alcoholic than into the ground, but they wouldn't be my first choice. There was and is no condescension present. I don't look down on them just like I wouldn't look down on a 90 year old man whose liver is failing from natural causes. Neither would be my first choice for recipients of my liver.

bradly 5y ago

He says he is committed to and I assume he has good intentions. He isn’t drinking or smoking, but water intake, salt intake, and red meat have been more challenging for his willpower/discipline. Also, I have no idea if matters or not but he is wealthy (low eight digits) as well.

forum_ghost 5y ago
Neither of those is a medical contradiction to receiving a transplant. Smoking is the big no-no because it is fairly well proven to impair healing and increases chances of failure. Evidence against red meat is very weak, and contradictory. Some studies show no harmful effects from non-processed red meat at all. In fact, there is just as much evidence against plant-based diets (they just aren't discussed widely due to the prevailing politics around CO2 etc), basically it's all just noise. Light alcohol use is absolutely fine in almost every case, and John Hopkins routinely does liver transplants for dependent alcoholics with an alcohol-related liver disease. You should look up some centenarians cases, some lived on a diet of nothing but beer, waffles and blood sausages daily for several decades, and then had a nice healthy liver on autopsy at 100+ y.o., could've been from someone in their 20s. Such is life.
- calvano915 5y ago
  Instead of contradiction, I believe you mean contraindication. I'm also in agreement that cessation of alcohol and smoking are much more reasonable requirements for placement on the list than other dietary patterns that are highly individual regarding effects on overall health.
kelnos 5y ago
Honestly I can't find any fault here. Giving up the drinking and smoking has probably been monumentally difficult, and it's amazing that he's been able to do that. That alone tells me he is committed to getting healthier. The diet stuff... honestly, nutrition "science" is full of contradictions. Sure, too much of anything is probably bad for you, but I don't think diet concerns should be a blocker for receiving a transplant. At any rate, sorry you and your family has to go through this, and best wishes for your uncle's recovery.

nineteen999 5y ago

Anecdotally, an ex-partner of mine here in Australia was denied a transplant for several years due to her heavy marijuana use, but was eventually allowed a transplant. Unfortunately her body rejected it and it had to be removed, and she passed away a year later.