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The Polish proposal is so strange I find it hard to believe it's in good faith. Look at a map: Poland has a long common border with Western Ukraine, but instea
by T-A 5y ago
The Polish proposal is so strange I find it hard to believe it's in good faith.
Look at a map: Poland has a long common border with Western Ukraine, but instead it offers to fly the other way, to Ramstein, more than a thousand kilometers from Ukraine.
Once the planes are in Ramstein, what do you do? Fly them back to Poland? That makes no sense, and according to the article, the idea is that "the Polish government would sidestep the logistical challenge of getting the jets over the border".
That leaves the three other NATO countries bordering Ukraine: Slovakia, Hungary and Romania.
But Hungary refuses to let lethal weapons transit its territory en route to Ukraine, so strike that. Slovakia shares only a short border with Ukraine - about 80 kilometers - and it's sandwiched between Poland and Hungary; too easy for Russia to watch.
That leaves only Romania. How do you get there from NATO territory? Not through Hungary (see above), so you're left with a ridiculous roundabout route like Germany -> France -> Italy -> Greece -> Bulgaria -> Romania.
Do they all agree to it? Why in particular would Romania be willing to tackle "the logistical challenge of getting the jets over the border" which Poland (and Hungary) won't touch with a bargepole?
- omega3 5y agoYou're missing the point, it was never a logistical issue. Poland wanted to avoid giving the migs directly so they proposed that they would transfer the ownership to the US for the US to transfer to Ukraine. Even better if you mix all the planes from other NATO countries to lower the risk for any one particular country. The planes can then go to Ukraine from the US removing Poland from the deal.
- T-A 5y ago> You're missing the point No, I'm underscoring it. > The planes can then go to Ukraine from the US How?
- jimmygrapes 5y ago"you throw the rock" "no, you do it, I'd get wrecked if they knew it was me" "do it you pussy" "that's misogyn-" "THROW THE ROCKS"
- water8 5y agoNo one throws the rock, nuclear holocaust avoided?
- omega3 5y agoLogistics were never the issue. US was pressurising Poland and other countries for at least a week to transfer the planes to Ukraine. Poland doesn't want to do by itself for obvious reasons so they've proposed for the US to take ownership and transfer the migs themselves and provide compensation down the line.
- dragonwriter 5y ago> US was pressurising Poland and other countries for at least a week to transfer the planes to Ukraine. US has been portrayed (almost certainly accurately) as an obstacle to countries doing it directly since NATO (almost certainly at US direction) shot the original leaked idea down; the recent “green light” for direct transfer was no doubt an attempt to not be seen as the barrier to direct transfer, but hardly constitutes pressure to do it, and if the US wanted it done they could have explained not doing it in a way which wasn't clearly an argument for why transferring planes isn't a good idea, but was instead an argument for why the particular proposal made by Poland wasn't.
- omega3 5y agoIn fact it's been reported in many sources that it was the other way round https://m.dw.com/pl/niemiecka-prasa-o-mig-29-dla-ukrainy-polska-nie-chce-by%C4%87-na-celowniku-putina/a-61046444 https://m.dw.com/pl/niemiecka-prasa-o-mig-29-dla-ukrainy-pol...
- dragonwriter 5y agoI think this article gets to the real issue; all the procedural problems are because everyone thinks the planes are a suboptimal idea that isn't worth the escalation risk, but no one wants to tell Ukraine that. Which makes it look like the US just bit the bullet on that and stopped playing the deflection game everyone has been playing.
- T-A 5y ago> Logistics were never the issue Of course. > transfer the migs themselves Again: how?
- dirtyid 5y agoIMO it's Poland telling American and Germany to assume risk of escalation. Reporting from 3+ days ago read like US pressuring eastern blocks to ship planes to UKR to provide runway access which puts them in crosshairs of RU retaliation.
- water8 5y agoLet’s be real Poland is probably tired of getting invaded and would rather someone else take the heat for once