4 ms·

My thoughts: 1. Another programming problem. Okay, if it doesn't take too long, I'd do it. 2. 60 day fuse. No way. I've worked under a Sword-of-Damoclese clau

by kabdib 15y ago

My thoughts: 1. Another programming problem. Okay, if it doesn't take too long, I'd do it. 2. 60 day fuse. No way. I've worked under a Sword-of-Damoclese clause before, and I won't do it again. This is a deal-breaker, and it's probably sending a very bad message to a large group of good engineers, and you're missing out. Fire for cause, or whatever, if you have to. But I won't work in an environment like that, and (I guess you'll just have to take it on faith) it's your loss, not mine.

kemayo 15y ago
I can understand not wanting to work with the trial period; that's why we're really up front about it. There's a whole "no, we're not kidding; are you sure you want to take the job even given this?" segment to the offer.
- mattdeboard 15y ago
  > There's a whole "no, we're not kidding; are you sure you want to take the job even given this?" segment to the offer So, your strategy is to deliberately make your job offer sound as unappealing as possible in order to find the people-who-call-themselves-programmers so unemployable and desperate for work they'll subject themselves to a trial period? Well, I would say that strategy, in terms of achieving its goal of attracting the desperate, is working out wonderfully for you all. From my own experience watching as my manager tries to find good people and from everything I've read, it IS hard to hire good developers. But it seems like you guys are making it much harder on yourselves.
- kabdib 15y ago
  When I make a hiring decision, I am damned sure. The recommendation to hire is the point where I commit to doing my best to make things work out. I have screwed up before. It sucks. It is painful and horrible to deal with someone who is not working out. But I haven't blown a "hire" vote in 18 years. Hundreds of interviewees, dozens of "hire" recommendations, zero bozos. It sounds to me like you are insecure in your hiring practices, to the point where you tell people "Quit your job, move your family, turn your life inside out, whatever; but you're on probation here and you're gone if you blink funny." Maybe it's just my past, where I was in this position (and it worked out really well, btw). But I wouldn't do that again, and I wouldn't do it /to/ anyone. Good luck. I hope it works out. But I cannot imagine a worse way to enter a job.

by kabdib 15y ago

kemayo 15y ago

I can understand not wanting to work with the trial period; that's why we're really up front about it. There's a whole "no, we're not kidding; are you sure you want to take the job even given this?" segment to the offer.

mattdeboard 15y ago
> There's a whole "no, we're not kidding; are you sure you want to take the job even given this?" segment to the offer So, your strategy is to deliberately make your job offer sound as unappealing as possible in order to find the people-who-call-themselves-programmers so unemployable and desperate for work they'll subject themselves to a trial period? Well, I would say that strategy, in terms of achieving its goal of attracting the desperate, is working out wonderfully for you all. From my own experience watching as my manager tries to find good people and from everything I've read, it IS hard to hire good developers. But it seems like you guys are making it much harder on yourselves.
kabdib 15y ago
When I make a hiring decision, I am damned sure. The recommendation to hire is the point where I commit to doing my best to make things work out. I have screwed up before. It sucks. It is painful and horrible to deal with someone who is not working out. But I haven't blown a "hire" vote in 18 years. Hundreds of interviewees, dozens of "hire" recommendations, zero bozos. It sounds to me like you are insecure in your hiring practices, to the point where you tell people "Quit your job, move your family, turn your life inside out, whatever; but you're on probation here and you're gone if you blink funny." Maybe it's just my past, where I was in this position (and it worked out really well, btw). But I wouldn't do that again, and I wouldn't do it /to/ anyone. Good luck. I hope it works out. But I cannot imagine a worse way to enter a job.