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Ask HN: Do students often go to grad school because they had a bad industry job?

13 points by amichail 5y ago

And if this is often the case, then maybe co-op programs aren't really a good idea?

version_five 5y ago
Purely anecdotal: I've seen many people go to grad school because it is a path of least resistance, or because they can't find a job. There may be another group of careerists that have it as part of the plan because it's a recommended qual for a job they want - though in CS I don't know how realistic this is. Really strong people that want a job are more likely to go get one with an undergrad. A small minority are genuinely interested in research, and do grad school for that reason.
- gaze 5y ago
  small minority sounds wrong...
  - version_five 5y ago
    From your other comment, it looks like you're part of that minority. Like I said, my comment is anecdotal, but go work at a non top-tier university and try to recruit graduate students and then see if you still feel the same way.
    - muzani 5y ago
      I agree, but it feels like this can be applied for any field in the world. A small minority really cares for the thing they do. Most people are just... there. They float towards one incentive to another. Get good grades because mom yells at me for not getting good grades. Get a job because bills. Marry someone good at sex and finance. Get more education because it's easier than caring about work. Buy expensive thing so people will like me.
gaze 5y ago
I worked a number of industry computing jobs starting at 14 years old. I worked at Apple, Palm, the Internet Systems Consortium, as well as a gov't lab (Lawrence Livermore.) Lawrence livermore was cool but high performance computing didn't really grab me. ISC was very cool and dealt with super interesting problems but I don't think the software was exactly what I wanted to work on. Apple and Palm were neat but what I was working on felt like it lacked importance. Consumer electronics did not feel like it was endowing my life with meaning. So, I went for a physics PhD and now a postdoc and am pretty happy. I get to be pretty self directed and get to be the first to see a natural phenomenon and figure out how to probe it. This gives me a fulfillment that I couldn't find in industry. Maybe I'll go back to industry as a research scientist -- who knows.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  How did you get started in the industry at 14? Were these posts internships for teenagers or were you breaking labor laws to quench your thirst for information?
  - gaze 5y ago
    They were for college students. I think there was some way to do this legally but maybe I was breaking labor laws.
    - Dracophoenix 5y ago
      I see. Which company did you get started with at age 14?
giantg2 5y ago
I went to grad school because the company paid for all but a couple thousand dollars of it. I thought it would help me move up and maybe even into management. It was a waste of time and money. It would have been more productive and lucrative for me to spend a couple extra hours every night doing work projects rather than going to night school.
- cafard 5y ago
  I went to grad school because a) the company paid for it, and b) it looked like a way out of tech support and into more interesting work. A masters in computer science looked better on the resume than a long-ago bachelors in liberal arts. And there were things I learned that paid off down the road.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    That situation is probably good. I had a BS in computer science and was working as a software dev already. Most of the info was just a repeat of the BS, but I did get to take additional security courses. Granted I'm not in a position to use things like computer forensics, but it was still interesting. It didn't help me professionally at all.
cowvin 5y ago
I don't think this is particularly common at least among people I know. When people in the industry aren't happy with their job, they find a new job. If they aren't happy with the whole industry, they usually change to a different industry.

13 points by amichail 5y ago

And if this is often the case, then maybe co-op programs aren't really a good idea?

Purely anecdotal: I've seen many people go to grad school because it is a path of least resistance, or because they can't find a job. There may be another group of careerists that have it as part of the plan because it's a recommended qual for a job they want - though in CS I don't know how realistic this is. Really strong people that want a job are more likely to go get one with an undergrad. A small minority are genuinely interested in research, and do grad school for that reason.

gaze 5y ago
small minority sounds wrong...
- version_five 5y ago
  From your other comment, it looks like you're part of that minority. Like I said, my comment is anecdotal, but go work at a non top-tier university and try to recruit graduate students and then see if you still feel the same way.
  - muzani 5y ago
    I agree, but it feels like this can be applied for any field in the world. A small minority really cares for the thing they do. Most people are just... there. They float towards one incentive to another. Get good grades because mom yells at me for not getting good grades. Get a job because bills. Marry someone good at sex and finance. Get more education because it's easier than caring about work. Buy expensive thing so people will like me.

gaze 5y ago

I worked a number of industry computing jobs starting at 14 years old. I worked at Apple, Palm, the Internet Systems Consortium, as well as a gov't lab (Lawrence Livermore.) Lawrence livermore was cool but high performance computing didn't really grab me. ISC was very cool and dealt with super interesting problems but I don't think the software was exactly what I wanted to work on. Apple and Palm were neat but what I was working on felt like it lacked importance. Consumer electronics did not feel like it was endowing my life with meaning. So, I went for a physics PhD and now a postdoc and am pretty happy. I get to be pretty self directed and get to be the first to see a natural phenomenon and figure out how to probe it. This gives me a fulfillment that I couldn't find in industry. Maybe I'll go back to industry as a research scientist -- who knows.

Dracophoenix 5y ago
How did you get started in the industry at 14? Were these posts internships for teenagers or were you breaking labor laws to quench your thirst for information?
- gaze 5y ago
  They were for college students. I think there was some way to do this legally but maybe I was breaking labor laws.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    I see. Which company did you get started with at age 14?

giantg2 5y ago

I went to grad school because the company paid for all but a couple thousand dollars of it. I thought it would help me move up and maybe even into management. It was a waste of time and money. It would have been more productive and lucrative for me to spend a couple extra hours every night doing work projects rather than going to night school.

cafard 5y ago
I went to grad school because a) the company paid for it, and b) it looked like a way out of tech support and into more interesting work. A masters in computer science looked better on the resume than a long-ago bachelors in liberal arts. And there were things I learned that paid off down the road.
- giantg2 5y ago
  That situation is probably good. I had a BS in computer science and was working as a software dev already. Most of the info was just a repeat of the BS, but I did get to take additional security courses. Granted I'm not in a position to use things like computer forensics, but it was still interesting. It didn't help me professionally at all.

cowvin 5y ago

I don't think this is particularly common at least among people I know. When people in the industry aren't happy with their job, they find a new job. If they aren't happy with the whole industry, they usually change to a different industry.