4 ms·

I think people have forgotten what a games used to be (PS1 and before)... a self-consistent system of interactions with a challenge attached to it. That challen

by proc0 5y ago

I think people have forgotten what a games used to be (PS1 and before)... a self-consistent system of interactions with a challenge attached to it. That challenge is meant to stump the player, and that was a huge part of the appeal, to be good at something difficult and overcome/triumph over the challenge issued by the game developers. After mobile games became huge, the laziness of gamers has been increasingly catered to with fancy UI, quest tracking, dying with little consequence, etc. Elden Ring is doing something refreshing and apparently surprising to other game devs: it just simply leaves the player alone to solve a challenge.

jockc 5y ago
tbf if you have very few runes on you in Elden Ring then dying has very little consequence. Only your progress is reverted a little.
- davidkuennen 5y ago
  I always get rid of all my runes before starting a tough boss fight :D No regrets then
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  Starting a long game from scratch on every mistake is from an era was when content was incredibly expensive. Forced repetition, especially of the early part of the game, is a cheap gimmick.
  - whynaut 5y ago
    it’s not really a thing in ER.
ElFitz 5y ago
I tried playing some PS1 games again « recently », using an emulator. Wow. I had forgotten how few, if any, instructions and indications we were given. No wonder some of these games took me years to finish as a kid.
ethbr0 5y ago
It's a challenge / response. Game companies made difficult games historically. Some subset of gamers were unable or uninterested in completing them. Consequently, subsequent game companies made easier games that catered to those players. The bone of contention I have is that the easier games pretend to be difficult games. See: COD's relentless "be a badass in cinematics" style. Which if you think about it, makes sense, as all players want to imagine they're surmounting a challenge. But the real toxicity is that players themselves aren't clear on whether they're playing a difficult or easy game, because the latter game is lying about and obscuring its nature.
chockchocschoir 5y ago
> I think people have forgotten what a games used to be (PS1 and before) It seems like people have forgotten that not all games used to be about just mastering something difficult as well. In the end, gaming is about having fun, and different people find different experiences fun. SimCity was never hard and was not meant to be hard, but it was still fun (for me). Dark Souls is hard, but was never fun for me. Sifu is similarly hard, but not as hard, and I find the balanced experience fun, even if I die a bit too much. I guess my point is: gaming is fun, different people find different games fun. This is OK, not everyone is the same, not every game is meant for every type of player.
Gigachad 5y ago
I find this being used as an excuse for bad user experience. I went in to the game without knowing it’s backstory or the other games in the series. Played for 2 hours and had hardly any idea what the point of the game was and why certain enemies seemed to be impossible to defeat. Eventually a friend pointed out that you are meant to block in combat which made things much easier. Apparently there was a combat tutorial hidden at the starting area but I couldn’t see it. After an hour more of playing I decided I just wasn’t that interested in the game. It reminds me of the game Cuphead where you have to spend an immense amount of time trying to muscle memory timing critical inputs. Which just isn’t something I find very entertaining but when you say this to anyone you get some snide comment back like “lol, you need the journalist mode”
- proc0 5y ago
  That's fair I guess. The game doesn't really force you into any particular build, whether it's blocking or doing any particular sort of combat. It is up to the player to discover the best way they can. Granted that process can be a long journey, compared to other games at least.

by proc0 5y ago

jockc 5y ago

tbf if you have very few runes on you in Elden Ring then dying has very little consequence. Only your progress is reverted a little.

davidkuennen 5y ago
I always get rid of all my runes before starting a tough boss fight :D No regrets then
alisonkisk 5y ago
Starting a long game from scratch on every mistake is from an era was when content was incredibly expensive. Forced repetition, especially of the early part of the game, is a cheap gimmick.
- whynaut 5y ago
  it’s not really a thing in ER.

ElFitz 5y ago

I tried playing some PS1 games again « recently », using an emulator. Wow. I had forgotten how few, if any, instructions and indications we were given. No wonder some of these games took me years to finish as a kid.

ethbr0 5y ago

It's a challenge / response. Game companies made difficult games historically. Some subset of gamers were unable or uninterested in completing them. Consequently, subsequent game companies made easier games that catered to those players. The bone of contention I have is that the easier games pretend to be difficult games. See: COD's relentless "be a badass in cinematics" style. Which if you think about it, makes sense, as all players want to imagine they're surmounting a challenge. But the real toxicity is that players themselves aren't clear on whether they're playing a difficult or easy game, because the latter game is lying about and obscuring its nature.

chockchocschoir 5y ago

> I think people have forgotten what a games used to be (PS1 and before) It seems like people have forgotten that not all games used to be about just mastering something difficult as well. In the end, gaming is about having fun, and different people find different experiences fun. SimCity was never hard and was not meant to be hard, but it was still fun (for me). Dark Souls is hard, but was never fun for me. Sifu is similarly hard, but not as hard, and I find the balanced experience fun, even if I die a bit too much. I guess my point is: gaming is fun, different people find different games fun. This is OK, not everyone is the same, not every game is meant for every type of player.

Gigachad 5y ago

I find this being used as an excuse for bad user experience. I went in to the game without knowing it’s backstory or the other games in the series. Played for 2 hours and had hardly any idea what the point of the game was and why certain enemies seemed to be impossible to defeat. Eventually a friend pointed out that you are meant to block in combat which made things much easier. Apparently there was a combat tutorial hidden at the starting area but I couldn’t see it. After an hour more of playing I decided I just wasn’t that interested in the game. It reminds me of the game Cuphead where you have to spend an immense amount of time trying to muscle memory timing critical inputs. Which just isn’t something I find very entertaining but when you say this to anyone you get some snide comment back like “lol, you need the journalist mode”

proc0 5y ago
That's fair I guess. The game doesn't really force you into any particular build, whether it's blocking or doing any particular sort of combat. It is up to the player to discover the best way they can. Granted that process can be a long journey, compared to other games at least.