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Well, considering that capitalism has been the biggest source of good in the world, lifting untold numbers out of poverty and raising the standard of living acr

Well, considering that capitalism has been the biggest source of good in the world, lifting untold numbers out of poverty and raising the standard of living across the globe… I’d say anything that gets in the way of that for protectionist reasons needs to go.

bigthymer 5y ago
> Well, considering that capitalism has been the biggest source of good in the world Really? Capitalism == Peak of goodness?
- mechanical_bear 5y ago
  No, but possibly one of the greatest forces of good we have conjured as humans.
mkr-hn 5y ago
Capitalism has only done all the good things it's credited with if you ignore the externalities starting to come due in the last decade. There's a cost, and capitalism only works by socializing it. Even the good stuff is built on publicly funded research and projects.
- mechanical_bear 5y ago
  The externalities are definitely an issue, and some will need to be addressed, however I’d argue those would exist regardless of the economic system in place. Humans tend to be a bit rapacious in the context of any economic frameworks. I am not against forms of socializing aspects of society. Fire service works wonderfully, universities are fantastic, etc.
originalvichy 5y ago
OK, but what if applying ”capitalism” to a service industry pushes workers towards poverty and lowers their standards of living? That’s what has happened in Finland. Established, trained and taxpaying cab drivers had to compete against untrained drivers who haven’t got a business license or pay taxes. This triggered a race to the bottom and drove many into unemployment, poverty and bankruptcy. Literally no one gained anything from this other than foreign-based ride-hailing apps: remaining drivers (many of them immigrants) barely get paid due to the price race to the bottom, customers get worse service and worse ride comfort and slower drives due to independent drivers not even going through a basic city knowledge test. Government loses tax money and much of the revenue is siphoned to foreign countries.
- mechanical_bear 5y ago
  You can definitely find instances where it has failed some workers, overall though the tide has lifted everyone’s boats. This is where a limited social safety net is warranted.
- secondcoming 5y ago
  In contrast, the presence of Uber in London gave Black Cab drivers a well-deserved kick. Before they were expensive, refused to accept card payments and often would refuse to drive you somewhere that wasn't convenient for them. The mayor actually tried to ban Uber but the public backlash was so great that they panned that move.
thoraway77f 5y ago
Capitalism is a word, at best a euphemism for moral relativism, and clinging to it is succumbing to sunk cost fallacy. It prescribes billions must kowtow to a minority who are average people granted political and education advantage. Read the well curated history; capitalism came about when some rich educated guys in the 1800s realized religion was dying, and needed a new social control scheme and decided a few slogans about honest work being worth a buck would be easily understood by the lesser educated laborers. Human ingenuity and engineering existed for hundreds of thousands of years before capitalism.

bigthymer 5y ago

> Well, considering that capitalism has been the biggest source of good in the world Really? Capitalism == Peak of goodness?

mechanical_bear 5y ago
No, but possibly one of the greatest forces of good we have conjured as humans.

mkr-hn 5y ago

Capitalism has only done all the good things it's credited with if you ignore the externalities starting to come due in the last decade. There's a cost, and capitalism only works by socializing it. Even the good stuff is built on publicly funded research and projects.

mechanical_bear 5y ago
The externalities are definitely an issue, and some will need to be addressed, however I’d argue those would exist regardless of the economic system in place. Humans tend to be a bit rapacious in the context of any economic frameworks. I am not against forms of socializing aspects of society. Fire service works wonderfully, universities are fantastic, etc.

originalvichy 5y ago

OK, but what if applying ”capitalism” to a service industry pushes workers towards poverty and lowers their standards of living? That’s what has happened in Finland. Established, trained and taxpaying cab drivers had to compete against untrained drivers who haven’t got a business license or pay taxes. This triggered a race to the bottom and drove many into unemployment, poverty and bankruptcy. Literally no one gained anything from this other than foreign-based ride-hailing apps: remaining drivers (many of them immigrants) barely get paid due to the price race to the bottom, customers get worse service and worse ride comfort and slower drives due to independent drivers not even going through a basic city knowledge test. Government loses tax money and much of the revenue is siphoned to foreign countries.

mechanical_bear 5y ago
You can definitely find instances where it has failed some workers, overall though the tide has lifted everyone’s boats. This is where a limited social safety net is warranted.
secondcoming 5y ago
In contrast, the presence of Uber in London gave Black Cab drivers a well-deserved kick. Before they were expensive, refused to accept card payments and often would refuse to drive you somewhere that wasn't convenient for them. The mayor actually tried to ban Uber but the public backlash was so great that they panned that move.

thoraway77f 5y ago

Capitalism is a word, at best a euphemism for moral relativism, and clinging to it is succumbing to sunk cost fallacy. It prescribes billions must kowtow to a minority who are average people granted political and education advantage. Read the well curated history; capitalism came about when some rich educated guys in the 1800s realized religion was dying, and needed a new social control scheme and decided a few slogans about honest work being worth a buck would be easily understood by the lesser educated laborers. Human ingenuity and engineering existed for hundreds of thousands of years before capitalism.