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I think this works like the opposite of a loss-leader, a product sold at a loss to draw people into a store, and/or like minor upsells at restaurants, like guac

I think this works like the opposite of a loss-leader, a product sold at a loss to draw people into a store, and/or like minor upsells at restaurants, like guacamole on the side. I got this theory from the Apple Explained youtube channel when he talked about the $600 wheels for Mac Pros Apple needs some high end items to keep its luxury appeal, but they really want the middle market without losing some perceived luxury appeal. So you have a few items with crazy prices that won't sell well to keep up your brand image. Interesting that these land on not-necessarily-deal-breaker things, like can you roll your computer? Can you adjust your monitor height? Extras, stuff you could live without or work around (especially being able to roll your mac pro) I don't think they expect to make a serious profit on the option. It's some kind of microeconomics thing. It might make the non-adjustable option look more attractive price-wise.

dangus 5y ago
This product is absolutely for the same kind of people who shop at Restoration Hardware, Gucci, Cartier, etc. If it was for creative pros, it would have HDR. A $1600 monitor with no HDR, can you believe it? You can buy an entire laptop with an HDR mini-LED monitor from Apple for very nearly the same price. The base model iPhone mini can shoot in HDR but you can't play it back on the brand new Apple StUdIo MoNiToR from 2022.
- apetrovic 5y ago
  > A $1600 monitor with no HDR, can you believe it? Is there a good alternative for reasonably calibrated 27" monitor, with 5K resolution, integrated (96W) USB-C hub that have camera, good speakers and HDR? How much that monitor costs?
  - dangus 5y ago
    Here's a list: https://www.displayninja.com/mini-led-monitor-list/ https://www.displayninja.com/mini-led-monitor-list/ ASUS ProArt is a good start: https://www.asus.com/Displays-Desktops/Monitors/ProArt/ProArt-Display-PA27UCX/ https://www.asus.com/Displays-Desktops/Monitors/ProArt/ProAr... - 4K HDR, 576 zones of local dimming - 90W power - Dolby Vision, HDR-10 - Works with Mac or PC so you aren't screwed if you have a multi-platform environment, includes DisplayPort, HDMI, USB-A (4x), USB-C, headphone jack For the same price as the Studio Display with stand upgrade ($1999) it seems like a better monitor. I guess it depends on whether you'd rather have 5K over 4K compared to HDR and mini-LED. For video production something like the ProArt seems like a no-brainer. Speakers and a good camera are not selling points for displays. A solid webcam costs $50. Professionals aren't going to rely on monitor speakers, they're gonna spend <$100 and get something like the Sony MDR7506 studio monitors. The Apple Studio Display is 100% made for your VP of Sales to put in his home office and look at.
    - nebula8804 5y ago
      >ASUS ProArt As someone who got suckered into buying two of these pieces of junk let me warn you that while the panel is decent, everything around it royally sucks. 1. The stand is horrible and tends to be very wobbly. This has been the case with three ASUS monitors I have owned over the years (two of them being ProArt) 2. Lack of supports around the screen makes it extremely fragile. Example: I carefully placed the screen face down on the table for less than 10 seconds just to wipe of the dust in the back with a cloth and when I lifted it up, the screen was cracked :/ 3. The boot up time is atrocious. I have timed it: 7 seconds just to get from a black screen to the slow ASUS animation logo to appear(because you must know who made this junk every time you turn this thing on.) Then another 23 seconds back to black until it actually initializes and displays the desktop. 4. The worst possible thing of it all: The darn thing cannot properly resume from sleep half the time. On multiple different machines(Windows + Mac), I am required to switch to another input on the convoluted rear OSD menu buttons, wait another ~20 seconds, and then switch back (another ~20 seconds). Then like an idiot I bought another one of these monitors after the first one broke because I got an unbelievable deal on this monitor on ebay(800$ price vs $5000 list price): ASUS Proart PA32UCG. This is supposedly a direct competitor to the apple XDR display and was given great reviews by this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfkUpcF5cZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfkUpcF5cZw It has all the same problems as the other Proart Displays. How can they get away with charging thousands of dollars for this thing?! >Speakers and a good camera are not selling points for displays. A solid webcam costs $50. Professionals aren't going to rely on monitor speakers, they're gonna spend <$100 and get something like the Sony MDR7506 studio monitors. Man I really hate when people trot out nonsense like this and just dismiss things like good speakers or a built in webcam. First of all, the speakers on these ProArt displays are flat out useless. Unless you are playing OS sound effects, just forget about it. They are so underpowered and blur out the audio that you can't use it for anything else. Second of all, you now have even more junk to put on your table. With just a little bit of effort, they could have engineered a solution that is at least somewhat comparable to Apple but they couldn't even be bothered to do that even in 2022. I will actively avoid ASUS after this experience. They still have a long way to go from their OEM manufacturing roots.
      - 5y ago
- Joeri 5y ago
  I am assuming the studio display will support EDR with its 600 nits of peak brightness, so while it may not be hdr, it is not quite sdr either. For those who don’t know, EDR works like this: when the built-in display of a supported mac is not at full brightness when playing HDR content it will ramp up the brightness to max to make use of the full range of the display for the HDR content while also dimming all non-HDR content to keep it at the same apparent brightness. The effect can be quite dramatic if you’re using the display at a low brightness setting, even on a 500 nit 5K iMac. The hdr content looks much brighter than a white finder window. https://prolost.com/blog/edr https://prolost.com/blog/edr
donarb 5y ago
This is nothing new, even Wal-Mart does it, it's retail selling 101.
goplayoutside 5y ago
"They make their pride in making their dinner cost much; I make my pride in making my dinner cost little." -- Thoreau.
mgh2 5y ago
Consumer Analogy: A digital scale https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/metallic-digital-scale-gold-gold/6000201535829 https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/metallic-digital-scale-gold-gol... Does the design look familiar? If I want to keep motivated on my health goals (checking at least once a day), it better look good or at least welcoming, because my mind subconsciously equates this device to my image and identity. Study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877042813050593 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187704281... There is a psychological and behavioral aspect playing here. Extrapolate this to a monitor that will be used for ~8 hrs a day, will design and its effect on productivity matter more? Brand or luxury appeal matters for consumer products, but these might not be Studio's target demographic. Enterprise If users are office workers then IT professionals in charge of office equipment ($ decision makers) are the target demographic. If this is WFH/remote work, then it is working professionals investing in a home office. Both demographics can spend thousands on chairs, desks & gear, why not monitors? As upsells, will these monitor arms make the worker more productive? Will buying them from the same manufacturer/brand ease installation minutiae that will possibly impact ergonomics and productivity long term? These are just all hypotheses worth pondering when it comes to Apple's design and business decisions.
David0Selznick 5y ago
the studio display is the LG Ultrafine 5k displayport MST display in an aluminum shell. studio display does not use the more advanced displayport 1.4 compression in the 32" 6k xdr. Apple is effectively selling a panel that first came out in 2014 when imac 5k was introduced. You can even argue the base Studio Display is overpriced because 10th gen imac 27" 5k with the same panel plus a whole computer is 1799
- buffington 5y ago
  Funny thing is a 10th generation iMac with the 5k panel probably costs a lot less than $1799 these days. I can't even find it to buy on Apple's site. I'd guess you can find a refurbished, or new units outside of Apple, for a lot less than what the new Studio Display costs. While it sounds a bit crazy, it might be worth going that route too. I've been using a 27" 5k iMac mostly as a monitor for the entire pandemic so far. It's the biggest display I can fit between the closet walls I work from. It took some fiddling to get the setup right, but what I ended up with works really well for me: * I remote into my work machine using the built in Screen Sharing app (which is really just a VNC client) * The remote machine is connected to the iMac over ethernet and sits on a shelf above me in the closet * I use macFuse and sshfs so that the work machine's drives can be mounted on the iMac I rarely, if ever, notice any image quality issues or input lag with this setup. The directly wired network connection helps with that. Aside from the benefits of the display (which, to this day, is still the best I've ever used), you get a full computer. That means I can have a video call going on on the work machine, CPU pegged, while the iMac compiles stuff without competing for CPU. Given the $1599 price of the Studio Display, and used 5k iMacs near me going for about $700, it's a no brainer. I'd still go this route if I were wanting a new high resolution monitor.
- prewett 5y ago
  According to LG's website, the only 27" 5k display actually on sale is $1300 (and it is out of stock), and it is not adjustable, does not have a 12 Mpx camera, and does not have fancy speakers. Given how impressive the 2018 MBP speakers are, I expect the Studio Display probably sounds pretty good. $1600 seems like a reasonable price for all that.
- 5y ago
npteljes 5y ago
Let's attach a name to the thing: price anchoring. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_(cognitive_bias) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_(cognitive_bias)
mgh2 5y ago
Two theories [1] Luxury: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBHY_Qaw5AI&ab_channel=MarquesBrownlee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBHY_Qaw5AI&ab_channel=Marqu... [2] Target demographic: https://medium.com/adventures-in-consumer-technology/here-is-why-apple-sells-mac-pro-wheels-for-700-8fe4d208460b https://medium.com/adventures-in-consumer-technology/here-is... I am more convinced by the business argument, both only cater to a small market of high-end spenders
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
> Apple needs some high end items to keep its luxury appeal, but they really want the middle market without losing some perceived luxury appeal. i.e. An aspirational brand. Judging from the way people are willing to sell their kidney to buy an iPhone in developing countries, Where Apple doesn't follow differentiated pricing like everyone else, even if they manufacture the phone there[1] I guess this has worked great for Apple & its shareholders. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30610454#30611568 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30610454#30611568

dangus 5y ago

This product is absolutely for the same kind of people who shop at Restoration Hardware, Gucci, Cartier, etc. If it was for creative pros, it would have HDR. A $1600 monitor with no HDR, can you believe it? You can buy an entire laptop with an HDR mini-LED monitor from Apple for very nearly the same price. The base model iPhone mini can shoot in HDR but you can't play it back on the brand new Apple StUdIo MoNiToR from 2022.

apetrovic 5y ago
> A $1600 monitor with no HDR, can you believe it? Is there a good alternative for reasonably calibrated 27" monitor, with 5K resolution, integrated (96W) USB-C hub that have camera, good speakers and HDR? How much that monitor costs?
- dangus 5y ago
  Here's a list: https://www.displayninja.com/mini-led-monitor-list/ https://www.displayninja.com/mini-led-monitor-list/ ASUS ProArt is a good start: https://www.asus.com/Displays-Desktops/Monitors/ProArt/ProArt-Display-PA27UCX/ https://www.asus.com/Displays-Desktops/Monitors/ProArt/ProAr... - 4K HDR, 576 zones of local dimming - 90W power - Dolby Vision, HDR-10 - Works with Mac or PC so you aren't screwed if you have a multi-platform environment, includes DisplayPort, HDMI, USB-A (4x), USB-C, headphone jack For the same price as the Studio Display with stand upgrade ($1999) it seems like a better monitor. I guess it depends on whether you'd rather have 5K over 4K compared to HDR and mini-LED. For video production something like the ProArt seems like a no-brainer. Speakers and a good camera are not selling points for displays. A solid webcam costs $50. Professionals aren't going to rely on monitor speakers, they're gonna spend <$100 and get something like the Sony MDR7506 studio monitors. The Apple Studio Display is 100% made for your VP of Sales to put in his home office and look at.
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    >ASUS ProArt As someone who got suckered into buying two of these pieces of junk let me warn you that while the panel is decent, everything around it royally sucks. 1. The stand is horrible and tends to be very wobbly. This has been the case with three ASUS monitors I have owned over the years (two of them being ProArt) 2. Lack of supports around the screen makes it extremely fragile. Example: I carefully placed the screen face down on the table for less than 10 seconds just to wipe of the dust in the back with a cloth and when I lifted it up, the screen was cracked :/ 3. The boot up time is atrocious. I have timed it: 7 seconds just to get from a black screen to the slow ASUS animation logo to appear(because you must know who made this junk every time you turn this thing on.) Then another 23 seconds back to black until it actually initializes and displays the desktop. 4. The worst possible thing of it all: The darn thing cannot properly resume from sleep half the time. On multiple different machines(Windows + Mac), I am required to switch to another input on the convoluted rear OSD menu buttons, wait another ~20 seconds, and then switch back (another ~20 seconds). Then like an idiot I bought another one of these monitors after the first one broke because I got an unbelievable deal on this monitor on ebay(800$ price vs $5000 list price): ASUS Proart PA32UCG. This is supposedly a direct competitor to the apple XDR display and was given great reviews by this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfkUpcF5cZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfkUpcF5cZw It has all the same problems as the other Proart Displays. How can they get away with charging thousands of dollars for this thing?! >Speakers and a good camera are not selling points for displays. A solid webcam costs $50. Professionals aren't going to rely on monitor speakers, they're gonna spend <$100 and get something like the Sony MDR7506 studio monitors. Man I really hate when people trot out nonsense like this and just dismiss things like good speakers or a built in webcam. First of all, the speakers on these ProArt displays are flat out useless. Unless you are playing OS sound effects, just forget about it. They are so underpowered and blur out the audio that you can't use it for anything else. Second of all, you now have even more junk to put on your table. With just a little bit of effort, they could have engineered a solution that is at least somewhat comparable to Apple but they couldn't even be bothered to do that even in 2022. I will actively avoid ASUS after this experience. They still have a long way to go from their OEM manufacturing roots.
    - 5y ago
Joeri 5y ago
I am assuming the studio display will support EDR with its 600 nits of peak brightness, so while it may not be hdr, it is not quite sdr either. For those who don’t know, EDR works like this: when the built-in display of a supported mac is not at full brightness when playing HDR content it will ramp up the brightness to max to make use of the full range of the display for the HDR content while also dimming all non-HDR content to keep it at the same apparent brightness. The effect can be quite dramatic if you’re using the display at a low brightness setting, even on a 500 nit 5K iMac. The hdr content looks much brighter than a white finder window. https://prolost.com/blog/edr https://prolost.com/blog/edr

donarb 5y ago

This is nothing new, even Wal-Mart does it, it's retail selling 101.

goplayoutside 5y ago

"They make their pride in making their dinner cost much; I make my pride in making my dinner cost little." -- Thoreau.

mgh2 5y ago

Consumer Analogy: A digital scale https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/metallic-digital-scale-gold-gold/6000201535829 https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/metallic-digital-scale-gold-gol... Does the design look familiar? If I want to keep motivated on my health goals (checking at least once a day), it better look good or at least welcoming, because my mind subconsciously equates this device to my image and identity. Study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877042813050593 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187704281... There is a psychological and behavioral aspect playing here. Extrapolate this to a monitor that will be used for ~8 hrs a day, will design and its effect on productivity matter more? Brand or luxury appeal matters for consumer products, but these might not be Studio's target demographic. Enterprise If users are office workers then IT professionals in charge of office equipment ($ decision makers) are the target demographic. If this is WFH/remote work, then it is working professionals investing in a home office. Both demographics can spend thousands on chairs, desks & gear, why not monitors? As upsells, will these monitor arms make the worker more productive? Will buying them from the same manufacturer/brand ease installation minutiae that will possibly impact ergonomics and productivity long term? These are just all hypotheses worth pondering when it comes to Apple's design and business decisions.

David0Selznick 5y ago

the studio display is the LG Ultrafine 5k displayport MST display in an aluminum shell. studio display does not use the more advanced displayport 1.4 compression in the 32" 6k xdr. Apple is effectively selling a panel that first came out in 2014 when imac 5k was introduced. You can even argue the base Studio Display is overpriced because 10th gen imac 27" 5k with the same panel plus a whole computer is 1799

buffington 5y ago
Funny thing is a 10th generation iMac with the 5k panel probably costs a lot less than $1799 these days. I can't even find it to buy on Apple's site. I'd guess you can find a refurbished, or new units outside of Apple, for a lot less than what the new Studio Display costs. While it sounds a bit crazy, it might be worth going that route too. I've been using a 27" 5k iMac mostly as a monitor for the entire pandemic so far. It's the biggest display I can fit between the closet walls I work from. It took some fiddling to get the setup right, but what I ended up with works really well for me: * I remote into my work machine using the built in Screen Sharing app (which is really just a VNC client) * The remote machine is connected to the iMac over ethernet and sits on a shelf above me in the closet * I use macFuse and sshfs so that the work machine's drives can be mounted on the iMac I rarely, if ever, notice any image quality issues or input lag with this setup. The directly wired network connection helps with that. Aside from the benefits of the display (which, to this day, is still the best I've ever used), you get a full computer. That means I can have a video call going on on the work machine, CPU pegged, while the iMac compiles stuff without competing for CPU. Given the $1599 price of the Studio Display, and used 5k iMacs near me going for about $700, it's a no brainer. I'd still go this route if I were wanting a new high resolution monitor.
prewett 5y ago
According to LG's website, the only 27" 5k display actually on sale is $1300 (and it is out of stock), and it is not adjustable, does not have a 12 Mpx camera, and does not have fancy speakers. Given how impressive the 2018 MBP speakers are, I expect the Studio Display probably sounds pretty good. $1600 seems like a reasonable price for all that.
5y ago

npteljes 5y ago

Let's attach a name to the thing: price anchoring. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_(cognitive_bias) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_(cognitive_bias)

mgh2 5y ago

Two theories [1] Luxury: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBHY_Qaw5AI&ab_channel=MarquesBrownlee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBHY_Qaw5AI&ab_channel=Marqu... [2] Target demographic: https://medium.com/adventures-in-consumer-technology/here-is-why-apple-sells-mac-pro-wheels-for-700-8fe4d208460b https://medium.com/adventures-in-consumer-technology/here-is... I am more convinced by the business argument, both only cater to a small market of high-end spenders

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

> Apple needs some high end items to keep its luxury appeal, but they really want the middle market without losing some perceived luxury appeal. i.e. An aspirational brand. Judging from the way people are willing to sell their kidney to buy an iPhone in developing countries, Where Apple doesn't follow differentiated pricing like everyone else, even if they manufacture the phone there[1] I guess this has worked great for Apple & its shareholders. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30610454#30611568 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30610454#30611568