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I really struggle with 1:1s primarily because: 1. Do you want career growth? No, and its hard to tell that to my manager. More growth leads to more responsibi

• lghh 5y ago
  I would be totally fine with someone telling me in a one on one that they are comfortable with their current position and would like to stay there. My expectation at that point would be that we would work on growth within that position. How can we (you and I) do the best job we can maximizing your impact and output where you currently are and make you the best version of what you want to be. Honestly, any manager who is against that isn't a good manager.
  • hvidgaard 5y ago
    I like growing employees, but I'd be lying if it said I didn't put immense value on the great employees that are content where they are with what they're doing. They're dependable and they mean I have some form of "old guard" that really knows a system inside out without going through documentation or experimenting. That is very valuable.
    • scarface74 5y ago
      That is very valuable until that employee needs to find another job and find their skills aren’t marketable.
      • mym1990 5y ago
        Its up to the employee to continue to build marketable skills, not the employer. If the employee is content in their position, then that's that.
        • nickd2001 5y ago
          Exactly and while the employee may appear from the untrained eye, to be "going nowhere" they may well be quietly gaining skills of highly marketable long term value, in fact having time to learn stuff properly due to lower pressure. So everyone wins...
        • DerArzt 5y ago
          I have seen the thought "employers are responsible for skills growth of their employees" and I am with you on this. Employees need to take responsibility for their career and growth. I am responsible for continuing my learning and maintaining my skill set. To that end though, I choose to work places that encourage and support that since it's in their own interest.
          • mym1990 5y ago
            Agreed, I think companies that foster an environment of growth and learning ultimately become more competitive in the market and have an easier time innovating, so its a big plus from the shareholder equity side, but certainly not their responsibility to elevate each and every employee.
        • skeeter2020 5y ago
          This is not how good managers think. They're not building good employees, they're helping build incredible team members. This isn't some altruistics BS, it's because the attributes of a great employee are symptoms of the indvidual. If your manager only cares about your bottom-line impact towards your job, start looking for a better situation.
          • scarface74 5y ago
• Mezzie 5y ago
  Couch it in how you want to contribute to your team. Instead of "I don't want interesting work", say you want to help support members of the team who are looking for new opportunities, or something like that. There's X work maintaining the codebase and Y work on new and shiny projects and Z employees. Suggest perhaps cross-training in other people's less-stressful work (if there is any). If you say that, then your manager (in their head), can be thinking, "Okay so we have this new project, and songzme doesn't want it, but her coworker does, so if songzme can pick up some of the maintenance work, the coworker will have time for new project." Obviously, keep your total workload under control, but a manager's job is to get a team to do something. It's fine to play support, just be open to it. It doesn't have to be permanent. I've had time periods when I've volunteered for projects and others when I'm not interested due to external factors. During those times, I just did more of the team's work that required the least 'brain'. Which is great for the team members who are feeling bored and want to try something new.
• whiddershins 5y ago
  There’s no problem with that as long as you don’t express it in a negative way. At least, I manage people who say this and it is perfectly fine. Also, this level of ambition has a tendency to change with people’s life circumstances. The most important thing for me is making sure the work someone is doing is aligned with their goals, whether that is work life balance or expanding their role as fast as is feasible or something in between.
• chudi 5y ago
  You have two options, If you have a good manager just say that you just want to keep the same volume of work to be done and that will be all. If you have a bad manager just lie, say that the work is hard enough, that its challenging maintaining a codebase up to date, that you are interested in this kind of work, that there is lots of work to be done, documenting, making tests, replacing old parts with newer parts and that you see your future being an expert in that kind of tasks. Usually there is a kind of trade off between being responsible for a piece of software and the amount of work to be done on that project.
• harha 5y ago
  Actually that sounds amazing: you seem to want to do what you do and do that right, nothing more, nothing less. There are only so many L+1 spots, someone who wants to do actual work in the team rather than invest a lot of time getting such a spot and potentially do things that may be risky or end up leaving the firm could be a very valuable part of the team.
• phphphphp 5y ago
  Hiring engineers is hard. Unless you’re in a very large company with complex internal politics, you can tell your manager literally anything and they’ll be fine with it. Most managers have been taught that engineers need excitement and growth and so they’re offering it because trying to retain you, they’re trying to avoid you being excited by something new and shiny. “I am happy and want to stay exactly where I am” is music to their ears, shout it from the roof tops. I wouldn’t take any lessons from layoffs.
• kristiandupont 5y ago
  >which manager wants an unambitious engineer? If you are doing good work, that sounds like any managers dream: reliability! I certainly want to help every member of my team to reach their personal goals but all of that means work for me, and work for finding who will replace them at their current position.
• erikwiffin 5y ago
  This is asking a lot from you, but in your situation, I think your goal should be to build up enough of a relationship with your manager that you feel comfortable telling them that, or realize that that's never going to happen at your current company and find a new job. I have reports who have told me that they're happy doing what they're doing. I don't see it as a negative at all - they're employees who are quietly getting their job done and I don't have to worry about them leaving for career growth or Peter Principle-ing them into incompetence. It's important that we continue to have 1:1s though. People aren't static, they can change their mind, and I also want to make sure I keep an ear out for little things that are annoying them, and do what I can to make them go away.
  • scarface74 5y ago
    That’s good for you. But how good is it for them for you not to inform them of the existential risks of them not getting better at their job and staying marketable? Even if they don’t want a raise? Every industry goes through changes and you should encourage them to stay up to date on those changes instead of just chugging along on the legacy products. I met two developers in 2016 who had been with the same company for 10 and 17 years respectively maintaining a PowerBuilder app from 1999 running on Sql server 2003. The company was happy to let them keep chugging along until the company got acquired by venture capital and they said they “no longer wanted to be a software company”. How do you think that worked out for them?
• 121789 5y ago
  Do you trust your manager? You should just tell him/her that. I don't think I'd worry about layoffs in this market. Big difference between unambitious and lazy/not competent. I'm a PM and devs like you are worth their weight in gold. You could work on the framing a bit. Something like "I'm quite happy with my current scope and responsibilities. I enjoy working to make our current codebase more stable and maintainable and adding scope would either take away from what I enjoy or my family time at home, which isn't worth the tradeoff to me"
• scarface74 5y ago
  I agree with not wanting a promotion, I’m perfectly fine with where I am compensation wise and job wise. But yes, I keep up with the new shiny projects and keep my resume current. The tides are always shifting in tech. Managers change, companies get acquired, go under etc. It’s my responsibility to myself and my family to keep myself competitive in the market. I’m not going to do that by not staying in sync with the market.
• terryf 5y ago
  As a manager - I would love it if someone tells me that! This makes my life so much easier! It means, that I will not have to worry about figuring out a good place for you to grow into. It also means that I will not have to worry about finding a replacement for you after you get promoted. Hell, if you tell me that I'll do everything I can to give you a raise asap. Tip: Your manager really, really wants to hear what you really honestly think. Even if it's not a positive thing (and just wanting to continue doing what you're doing is very positive!). It's super hard to guess what people are trying to say because most people don't just tell you straight. Of course there are exceptions - that's probably a sign of a crappy manager. If that's the case, sorry, you can probably find a better job.
  • jrmiii 5y ago
    I will add that these types tend to amass deep expertise in what they do as well, because they're not just "passing through" the responsibilities - it's their craft. They are incredible teammates and, in my experience, contribute more than "their share" to the mission.
    • terryf 5y ago
      Absolutely! There is always a risk of stagnation and turning into a cynical downer, but if it goes well, then it goes really well.
  • songzme 5y ago
    okay I will try this thank you for the suggestion!
    • terryf 5y ago
      Good luck! Hope it works out for you. There are always risks of course, but in the current market, keep in mind that it's highly likely that they need you more than you need them.
    • rramadass 5y ago
      No, please don't ! Without thinking through all possible consequences do not take any action which will jeopardize your status-quo. There is nothing wrong with your current strategy for your 1:1s. You should know your Manager very well before following "terryf"s suggestion; most Managers will not respond positively to somebody on their team who they think is "stagnating" (slacker, bad for team morale and growth etc. etc.). The worst-case scenario is, you get laid off while the best-case scenario is you never get a raise again.
• gaoshan 5y ago
  As a manager I would be fine with this explanation. If you are valuable in the area you are and you don't want to move on that's fine with me. We need someone in that role and you fill it nicely so by all means stay in that role. There should still be plenty of growth opportunity for you if you want it... it doesn't have to come with a title change. Having 100 people that all want promotions that cycle and only 20 slots to promote into is stressful to handle so you not being part of that but still contributing is kind of great.
• nickd2001 5y ago
  Sounds like you're working somewhere with an "up or out" culture? I've been there, done that, then moved on to a much nicer job. IMHO its a ridiculous way for a company to run. There are loads of people, like you or I or other commenters here, who will do a hard day's work, but don't want the extra stress and instead want enough time with our spouse and kid(s). We are nevertheless super useful to our employers. In fact, we're excellent value, because we don't chase the big bucks and we stick around gaining knowledge. My advice is GTFO from there. ;)
• mutatio 5y ago
  Have you considered contracting / consultancy engagements? I find things like 1:1's infantile / patronising / condescending, I'm sure some employees are convinced about their benefit, however I'm unable to come to that conclusion myself when thinking about it. For me contracting is a more honest exchange of my time and expertise, for money.
  • songzme 5y ago
    I thought about it, and I decided not to. TBH, I like vesting stocks and the stock growth helps me work alot less than I need to ( get to quit, take a year off and live off selling the stock, then go back to work). With contracting I would have to save and every hour I don't work is an hour I'm not getting money its a bit stressful to think about.
• mike10921 5y ago
  I sympathize, before becoming a manager I was exactly you. Eventually, I realized I just don't want to be coding all day. I hate the endless chase to become good with some new technology. Being a manager has its own challenges but overall I can say I am much happier than in my prior job where I was an individual contributor.
• greg7gkb 5y ago
  As an engineering manager, I would absolutely love to hear this from a report. It provides immediate clarity to me on how to provide great projects and work options for you. However, there are a few points in your post that may be conflating topics. First, 'maintaining the current codebase' and providing work that is valuable to the team/org are not the same thing. Some engineers will endlessly poke around the internals of a code base, refactoring, tuning, renaming for clarity, but never provide anything of real value. This is a pitfall. Second, I would separate 'career growth' from promotion. Companies orient promotion ladders around particular dimensions that you may or may not care about, but that doesn't mean you can't be growing. Consider if there are ways you want to grow that are outside of what your company is asking for as a promotable step. I don't mind if engineers don't want to be promoted but I'm concerned if they have no desire to grow. Finally, your post makes it sound like you believe an engineer's lack of ambition led to their being laid off, however this may conflate ambition for output. Are you sure a lack of ambition was the reason or were they not producing anything of value (as in point 1 above)? For bonus courage points, consider having a candid discussion with your manager about each of these topics. I would wager that you will be much better aligned afterwards.
• novembermike 5y ago
  One thing to keep in mind is that "expert on team's codebase" is a form of career growth. Not always the best or most prestigious kind but it's enough that the company finds you valuable and worth paying more.
• markbeare 5y ago
  Agreed with the other comments here. I would love to hear this as an engineering manager. I fear the work becoming stale for my team and push growth opportunities to keep things interesting.
• mebassett 5y ago
  > I'm afraid to tell my manager that, because which manager wants an unambitious engineer? the laying someone off for that is silly. But when I was managing a team for the first time I would have found it really helpful if one of them told me that! It was so far from my imagination that there would be an _unambitious engineer_ the thought never occurred to me. I wasn't a lot of my time and theirs working on this erroneous world-view.
• gorgoiler 5y ago
  You’re a SWE. Point out how your growth is $$$ for the business. Once you’re through the first chunk of your career, it’s enough, and it’s what they really want.
• skeeter2020 5y ago
  >> 2. Do you want more interesting work? >> Also no, I'm perfectly happy maintaining our current codebase, not interested in new and shiny projects because my most interesting time is spent at home with my kiddo. So as a manager my concern here is you're communicating I don't want to grow or add more value. I'm not sure if that's your intent. There are actually very few roles where I've needed someone to "just keep doing exactly what you're doing right now", and they are typically short-term bridges to more important projects or quickly devolve into lowest-cost commodity solutions. You don't have to get promoted or work on bleeding-edge tech, but you definitely need to grow. If you're not growing, your stagnating, and your time is limited. The follow-on comments from other managers about how you're a dream IC really scare me; they present a mindset that developers are a problem that needs to be solved as easily as possible. Give me a demanding, passionate and yes, needy, developer over someone who's stopped progressing every time. >> Any tips on how I can handle my 1:1s? Don't share that you're perfectly content with the current status-quo and that you don't want any further growth or responsibility.