4 ms·

Most people, i think, like both. Problem is when some company in Cupertino, CA tries to pass off crap using pretty packaging. Nobody likes to wake up one day ne

by Herring 18y ago

Most people, i think, like both. Problem is when some company in Cupertino, CA tries to pass off crap using pretty packaging. Nobody likes to wake up one day next to a fruit colored laptop. Edit: Too soon?

unalone 18y ago
I use Apple's MacBook Pro, and it runs quickly, its programs are all aesthetically pleasing, and it's an absolute joy to use. I didn't get an Air because I plan on doing some pretty intensive stuff on here, but from what i've seen of it it does a great job of being very fast for basic processes while looking beautiful. I haven't seen a single Apple product that I think is crap, not in a decade. I think that a lot of them could be BETTER, but Apple absolutely cares about making the best product that they can, and they've shown it time and time again. Also, for the record, I LIKED the original iMac. I like the new ones better, but I think that iMac was great when it first came out. So unless you've got a quantitative argument against Apple, close it: I don't care to hear insults against a company that I like without any sort of backing-up.
- Herring 18y ago
  I must have been the only one paying attention last few weeks during the iphone complaints. Apple is fun, i imagine, when you don't care about OSS, drm, or anything that Jobs has a tight fist clenched around.
  - ashu 18y ago
    You may have a different requirement from a product (OSS, etc. - I myself prefer to use Linux because of the open-ness) while others may have different (wanting it to look good, do the common things without a hassle) - but why is that a reason to say "passing off crap"? I will agree to the iPhone complaints, so they botched up the launch by sending out a half-baked product. The 2.1 update seems to have fixed a lot of problems for many people. The iPhone is driven by software a whole lot more than other phones are, and so gets updated at a very high rate. That is a good thing. How many phones you know keep adding features to themselves or fixing their own bugs via software updates? Or do other phones just not have any bugs or annoyances? I will admit, though, that Apple tends to go overboard with its cheesy marketing tricks and ploys many times. They should let the products speak more. In most cases, they just do.
    - unalone 18y ago
      Out of curiosity: what tricks and ploys do you think it pulls, beyond the "I'm a Mac" ads?
      - ashu 18y ago
        The "twice as fast" and "half the price" ads were rather disingenuous. The "most advanced operating system" -- what? that's true only if you consider how great it looks. Otherwise, we can easily rattle off many Unix variants which kick OS X's ass when it comes to performance. Xcode: "the best IDE ever". MobileMe: "you can't believe this is a web-app, unheard-of usability in a web-app!" It just doesn't stop. They go overboard. As for the "I'm a Mac" ads, they are not that bad at all. Disclosure: I own an iPhone and am madly in love with it. I also own a new iMac, and love its looks and would like to make OS X work for me, but have not been very successful at that. Perhaps because I am just used to Linux.
        unalone 18y ago
        The "twice as fast" I agree you with. Xcode I've heard nothing about. MobileMe I agree with them: it's beautiful unlike any other web app I've used. The service rocks too. The operating system is absolutely the most advanced. The fact that it gives you so much power without any tinkering is stunning. Corner-window commands, the vast keyboard commands, and the incredible efficiency of Spotlight are my favorite quick things to point out.
  - derefr 18y ago
    The iPhone is owned by wireless carriers first, Apple second. No matter how Apple feels about OSS or DRM, they still have to treat the iPhone as a signed-and-sealed-and-dictated black box, because that's what the carriers demand in order for Apple to be let onto their networks. If they only had the iPod Touch (and had built their own VoIP suite on top as the "phone" part, say) they would likely be taking a very different approach with the App Store.
    - lief79 18y ago
      Unfortunately, this tends to be true. It will very be interesting to see how this changes once Verizon opens up their networks to all products that prove their compatibility. Hopefully it will be much better then the locked down equipment they currently sell. The only network I get home reception from won't even include flashes on the vast majority of their camera phones.
    - rbanffy 18y ago
      Yeah. I am pretty sure Apple´s iPhone business would collapse the moment they decide to sell unlocked phones to anyone who wants them, anywhere in the world. It would also not resist if Apple decided to allow people to install software from any third party phone owners wanted to. With all the demand for iPhones, the only reason to this closedness is maximizing profit at the expense of end-user flexibility.
      - unalone 18y ago
        You seem to forget that AT&T had to create an entire new system for handling voice messages just to let Apple host their phone. You also forget that Apple refuses to compromise their design, which means that they needed AT& T specifically because Verizon's a dick about stuff like that. Usually Apple isn't against making tons of money, so I think it makes sense that there's a logical reason behind their actions.
        jcl 18y ago
        Does the same logic apply to T-Mobile? As Apple's exclusive iPhone provider in Germany, T-Mobile must already have both a sufficient voice message system and an adequate deference to Apple's sense of design. Why not allow them to be an iPhone provider in the U.S. as well? The truth is that Apple feels it can make much more money from exclusive contracts with the carriers than it can selling the phones directly to consumers.
  - comatose_kid 18y ago
    I have a 3G iPhone and it is definitely not crap. It is a beautiful product that works really well for me (checking email, surfing, voice). DRM sucks, but the iPod has proven that the presence of DRM doesn't mean a product is crap.
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  Even the original Apple TV? You could watch rented videos from iTunes on it, but couldn't purchase. It required a HD hookup, but had no HD video. It sold like 8 units total. If that wasn't crap, I don't know what was. Even the much improved version is still a misfire, but probably not crap.
- whatusername 18y ago
  Hockey-Puck mouse? G4 Cube? And as much as the performance of the MBA is derided on here.. It's probably better performing than my thinkpad (Due to being much newer). Has what you do in the last 2 years or so really changed that much needing extra performance (On your laptop?!)

by Herring 18y ago

unalone 18y ago

I use Apple's MacBook Pro, and it runs quickly, its programs are all aesthetically pleasing, and it's an absolute joy to use. I didn't get an Air because I plan on doing some pretty intensive stuff on here, but from what i've seen of it it does a great job of being very fast for basic processes while looking beautiful. I haven't seen a single Apple product that I think is crap, not in a decade. I think that a lot of them could be BETTER, but Apple absolutely cares about making the best product that they can, and they've shown it time and time again. Also, for the record, I LIKED the original iMac. I like the new ones better, but I think that iMac was great when it first came out. So unless you've got a quantitative argument against Apple, close it: I don't care to hear insults against a company that I like without any sort of backing-up.

Herring 18y ago
I must have been the only one paying attention last few weeks during the iphone complaints. Apple is fun, i imagine, when you don't care about OSS, drm, or anything that Jobs has a tight fist clenched around.
- ashu 18y ago
  You may have a different requirement from a product (OSS, etc. - I myself prefer to use Linux because of the open-ness) while others may have different (wanting it to look good, do the common things without a hassle) - but why is that a reason to say "passing off crap"? I will agree to the iPhone complaints, so they botched up the launch by sending out a half-baked product. The 2.1 update seems to have fixed a lot of problems for many people. The iPhone is driven by software a whole lot more than other phones are, and so gets updated at a very high rate. That is a good thing. How many phones you know keep adding features to themselves or fixing their own bugs via software updates? Or do other phones just not have any bugs or annoyances? I will admit, though, that Apple tends to go overboard with its cheesy marketing tricks and ploys many times. They should let the products speak more. In most cases, they just do.
  - unalone 18y ago
    Out of curiosity: what tricks and ploys do you think it pulls, beyond the "I'm a Mac" ads?
    - ashu 18y ago
      The "twice as fast" and "half the price" ads were rather disingenuous. The "most advanced operating system" -- what? that's true only if you consider how great it looks. Otherwise, we can easily rattle off many Unix variants which kick OS X's ass when it comes to performance. Xcode: "the best IDE ever". MobileMe: "you can't believe this is a web-app, unheard-of usability in a web-app!" It just doesn't stop. They go overboard. As for the "I'm a Mac" ads, they are not that bad at all. Disclosure: I own an iPhone and am madly in love with it. I also own a new iMac, and love its looks and would like to make OS X work for me, but have not been very successful at that. Perhaps because I am just used to Linux.
      - unalone 18y ago
        The "twice as fast" I agree you with. Xcode I've heard nothing about. MobileMe I agree with them: it's beautiful unlike any other web app I've used. The service rocks too. The operating system is absolutely the most advanced. The fact that it gives you so much power without any tinkering is stunning. Corner-window commands, the vast keyboard commands, and the incredible efficiency of Spotlight are my favorite quick things to point out.
- derefr 18y ago
  The iPhone is owned by wireless carriers first, Apple second. No matter how Apple feels about OSS or DRM, they still have to treat the iPhone as a signed-and-sealed-and-dictated black box, because that's what the carriers demand in order for Apple to be let onto their networks. If they only had the iPod Touch (and had built their own VoIP suite on top as the "phone" part, say) they would likely be taking a very different approach with the App Store.
  - lief79 18y ago
    Unfortunately, this tends to be true. It will very be interesting to see how this changes once Verizon opens up their networks to all products that prove their compatibility. Hopefully it will be much better then the locked down equipment they currently sell. The only network I get home reception from won't even include flashes on the vast majority of their camera phones.
  - rbanffy 18y ago
    Yeah. I am pretty sure Apple´s iPhone business would collapse the moment they decide to sell unlocked phones to anyone who wants them, anywhere in the world. It would also not resist if Apple decided to allow people to install software from any third party phone owners wanted to. With all the demand for iPhones, the only reason to this closedness is maximizing profit at the expense of end-user flexibility.
    - unalone 18y ago
      You seem to forget that AT&T had to create an entire new system for handling voice messages just to let Apple host their phone. You also forget that Apple refuses to compromise their design, which means that they needed AT& T specifically because Verizon's a dick about stuff like that. Usually Apple isn't against making tons of money, so I think it makes sense that there's a logical reason behind their actions.
      - jcl 18y ago
        Does the same logic apply to T-Mobile? As Apple's exclusive iPhone provider in Germany, T-Mobile must already have both a sufficient voice message system and an adequate deference to Apple's sense of design. Why not allow them to be an iPhone provider in the U.S. as well? The truth is that Apple feels it can make much more money from exclusive contracts with the carriers than it can selling the phones directly to consumers.
- comatose_kid 18y ago
  I have a 3G iPhone and it is definitely not crap. It is a beautiful product that works really well for me (checking email, surfing, voice). DRM sucks, but the iPod has proven that the presence of DRM doesn't mean a product is crap.
mattmaroon 18y ago
Even the original Apple TV? You could watch rented videos from iTunes on it, but couldn't purchase. It required a HD hookup, but had no HD video. It sold like 8 units total. If that wasn't crap, I don't know what was. Even the much improved version is still a misfire, but probably not crap.
whatusername 18y ago
Hockey-Puck mouse? G4 Cube? And as much as the performance of the MBA is derided on here.. It's probably better performing than my thinkpad (Due to being much newer). Has what you do in the last 2 years or so really changed that much needing extra performance (On your laptop?!)