5 ms·

For those who don't know, Danielle is transgender, and this article is using her name from before she came out, what is known as the "dead name". Using it now

by faho 5y ago

For those who don't know, Danielle is transgender, and this article is using her name from before she came out, what is known as the "dead name". Using it now is incredibly rude.

Bancakes 5y ago
sebastianlay 5y ago
I follow the development of elementary for a while now and even contributed a little bit from time to time and this is honestly the first time I heard of this name change. So I think it is an easy mistake to make and would not automatically assume malice here.
- faho 5y ago
  Her twitter (which Lunduke links to, and copied tweets from) very prominently features her new name. I'm not saying it can't be accidental (in which case you do what you do when you've accidentally been rude - apologize, correct your mistake and move on), but it is at least careless.
  - pell 5y ago
    A few years ago Lunduke kept sharing some views that I would place in the more “reactionary“ spectrum. I’m not sure he ever distanced himself from that. He did interview Danielle a few years back however.(1) So maybe it simply was a careless mistake. (1) https://www.networkworld.com/article/3130760/elementary-os-04-review-and-interview-with-the-founder.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/3130760/elementary-os-0...
  - ddtaylor 5y ago
    > Her twitter (which Lunduke links to, and copied tweets from) very prominently features her new name. It's worth mentioning the twitter handle is still "DanielFore"
    - faho 5y ago
      This is incorrect, the twitter handle is "DaniElainaFore" - https://mobile.twitter.com/DaniElainaFore https://mobile.twitter.com/DaniElainaFore As you can see in the linked screenshots. Try to open the old handle and you will find one tweet telling you she's moved to the new one.
      - ddtaylor 5y ago
        This handle is actually pretty new since the post-sex transition.
        faho 5y ago
        This handle is in the archive links the article points to, and that's the important part. Lunduke had this handle on his screen, and either missed it or chose to ignore it on purpose. The former is careless and sloppy, especially if you're trying to do journalism. The latter is very rude, to put it mildly.
- input_sh 5y ago
  Even if you followed her on Twitter, and "reported" on a thread with the name Danielle staring at you above each tweet? I'd argue that by that point you'd be pretty aware.
- JoachimS 5y ago
  But Lunduke must have known.
jkepler 5y ago
chekibreki 5y ago
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  Calling someone by their chosen name isn't gender politics, it's just common courtesy.
- thomasedwards 5y ago
  Hate to break it to you my guy, but that is not ‘gender politics’, it‘s just her name and her pronouns. If you use he/him and I say she/her, that’s rude. It’s no different.
- nyanpasu64 5y ago
  It's not just rude in general, but actively hurtful to the person being named.
- slightwinder 5y ago
  No, this is rude in any frame of mind. A person changed their name, and some people can't just accept it because of the reason for the name-change. If it had been any other reason, be marriage, adoption, religion some nerdy humor or what else...everyone would accept it without making a buzz about it.
  - CodeGlitch 5y ago
    It's more than a name change though isn't it? It's access to women only spaces and women only sports etc. This is what people are really upset about. I don't think people actually care about name changes.
    - embik 5y ago
      I don’t see Danielle trying to compete in women only sports here, so this boils down to throwing a temper tantrum like a toddler and being rude because you (as in Lunduke, not you as a poster Im answering to) think you have a right to determine how a person feels about themselves, more than the person. There is no excuse for it.
young_unixer 5y ago
Even from my point of view that transgender people don't exist (at least not on earth, our science hasn't developed a way to change the sexual cromosomes throughout the human body yet) I would still call someone by the name that they call themselves, even if it's a name that tipically isn't associated to their actual gender.
- nobodywasishere 5y ago
  Whether someone is transgender or not has nothing to do with whether they decide to physically transition. As well, a person's "actual gender" is the one felt deeply as a part of themselves, not based the sex they were assigned at birth.
  - orestarod 5y ago
    Doesn't gender lose its meaning if it's not tied to sex? As in, it is just a person's psych? I am not saying it negatively, I am all for sex having no predetermined effect on someone's behavior. But if there as many genders as there are people, it is no longer a useful term.
    - pell 5y ago
      According to the theory, gender and biological sex are not inherently tied to each other. You might enjoy reading this essay if you are interested in learning more about this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/02/18/typical-mind-and-gender-identity/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/02/18/typical-mind-and-gende...
    - DoctorOW 5y ago
      > Doesn't gender lose its meaning if it's not tied to sex? As in, it is just a person's psych? What do you mean by "sex"? Would a woman who goes through menopause no longer be a woman because she's not fertile? What about someone born intersex with multiple or no recognizable genitals? What about a woman with a Y Chromosome? That's not hypothetical it's recognized by actual biologists. The reason it's under diagnosed is because it rarely shows symptoms so it's only something someone already taking a DNA test would find out. Fun fact though, when you meet someone, you forgo the strip search, DNA test, and ultrasound required to actually verify these things. Not only is gender not based on sex, YOU don't base your evaluation of it on sex. Instead you've picked a number of unrelated arbitrary qualities, which is what scientists and I call "dumb". If we're assigning genders willy nilly why should you be in charge of everyone? Let everyone pick for themselves.

by faho 5y ago

For those who don't know, Danielle is transgender, and this article is using her name from before she came out, what is known as the "dead name". Using it now is incredibly rude.

Bancakes 5y ago

sebastianlay 5y ago

I follow the development of elementary for a while now and even contributed a little bit from time to time and this is honestly the first time I heard of this name change. So I think it is an easy mistake to make and would not automatically assume malice here.

faho 5y ago
Her twitter (which Lunduke links to, and copied tweets from) very prominently features her new name. I'm not saying it can't be accidental (in which case you do what you do when you've accidentally been rude - apologize, correct your mistake and move on), but it is at least careless.
- pell 5y ago
  A few years ago Lunduke kept sharing some views that I would place in the more “reactionary“ spectrum. I’m not sure he ever distanced himself from that. He did interview Danielle a few years back however.(1) So maybe it simply was a careless mistake. (1) https://www.networkworld.com/article/3130760/elementary-os-04-review-and-interview-with-the-founder.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/3130760/elementary-os-0...
- ddtaylor 5y ago
  > Her twitter (which Lunduke links to, and copied tweets from) very prominently features her new name. It's worth mentioning the twitter handle is still "DanielFore"
  - faho 5y ago
    This is incorrect, the twitter handle is "DaniElainaFore" - https://mobile.twitter.com/DaniElainaFore https://mobile.twitter.com/DaniElainaFore As you can see in the linked screenshots. Try to open the old handle and you will find one tweet telling you she's moved to the new one.
    - ddtaylor 5y ago
      This handle is actually pretty new since the post-sex transition.
      - faho 5y ago
        This handle is in the archive links the article points to, and that's the important part. Lunduke had this handle on his screen, and either missed it or chose to ignore it on purpose. The former is careless and sloppy, especially if you're trying to do journalism. The latter is very rude, to put it mildly.
input_sh 5y ago
Even if you followed her on Twitter, and "reported" on a thread with the name Danielle staring at you above each tweet? I'd argue that by that point you'd be pretty aware.
JoachimS 5y ago
But Lunduke must have known.

jkepler 5y ago

chekibreki 5y ago

boomboomsubban 5y ago
Calling someone by their chosen name isn't gender politics, it's just common courtesy.
thomasedwards 5y ago
Hate to break it to you my guy, but that is not ‘gender politics’, it‘s just her name and her pronouns. If you use he/him and I say she/her, that’s rude. It’s no different.
nyanpasu64 5y ago
It's not just rude in general, but actively hurtful to the person being named.
slightwinder 5y ago
No, this is rude in any frame of mind. A person changed their name, and some people can't just accept it because of the reason for the name-change. If it had been any other reason, be marriage, adoption, religion some nerdy humor or what else...everyone would accept it without making a buzz about it.
- CodeGlitch 5y ago
  It's more than a name change though isn't it? It's access to women only spaces and women only sports etc. This is what people are really upset about. I don't think people actually care about name changes.
  - embik 5y ago
    I don’t see Danielle trying to compete in women only sports here, so this boils down to throwing a temper tantrum like a toddler and being rude because you (as in Lunduke, not you as a poster Im answering to) think you have a right to determine how a person feels about themselves, more than the person. There is no excuse for it.

young_unixer 5y ago

Even from my point of view that transgender people don't exist (at least not on earth, our science hasn't developed a way to change the sexual cromosomes throughout the human body yet) I would still call someone by the name that they call themselves, even if it's a name that tipically isn't associated to their actual gender.

nobodywasishere 5y ago
Whether someone is transgender or not has nothing to do with whether they decide to physically transition. As well, a person's "actual gender" is the one felt deeply as a part of themselves, not based the sex they were assigned at birth.
- orestarod 5y ago
  Doesn't gender lose its meaning if it's not tied to sex? As in, it is just a person's psych? I am not saying it negatively, I am all for sex having no predetermined effect on someone's behavior. But if there as many genders as there are people, it is no longer a useful term.
  - pell 5y ago
    According to the theory, gender and biological sex are not inherently tied to each other. You might enjoy reading this essay if you are interested in learning more about this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/02/18/typical-mind-and-gender-identity/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/02/18/typical-mind-and-gende...
  - DoctorOW 5y ago
    > Doesn't gender lose its meaning if it's not tied to sex? As in, it is just a person's psych? What do you mean by "sex"? Would a woman who goes through menopause no longer be a woman because she's not fertile? What about someone born intersex with multiple or no recognizable genitals? What about a woman with a Y Chromosome? That's not hypothetical it's recognized by actual biologists. The reason it's under diagnosed is because it rarely shows symptoms so it's only something someone already taking a DNA test would find out. Fun fact though, when you meet someone, you forgo the strip search, DNA test, and ultrasound required to actually verify these things. Not only is gender not based on sex, YOU don't base your evaluation of it on sex. Instead you've picked a number of unrelated arbitrary qualities, which is what scientists and I call "dumb". If we're assigning genders willy nilly why should you be in charge of everyone? Let everyone pick for themselves.